4 ms·

And what if I turn off my computer with Windows 8 and add/remove/swap PCI cards? HDDs? It will crash when booting and corrupt my data, isn't it? In Windows 95

by mkup 15y ago

And what if I turn off my computer with Windows 8 and add/remove/swap PCI cards? HDDs? It will crash when booting and corrupt my data, isn't it? In Windows 95 I had two options: reboot and poweroff. In Windows 2000 I had three options: reboot, poweroff and sleep. In Windows XP/Vista I have four options: reboot, poweroff, sleep and hibernate. Finally, in Windows 8 I will have five options: reboot, poweroff-which-is-not-really-a-poweroff, poweroff-which-is-really-a-poweroff, sleep, sleep-and-then-hibernate-if-battery-is-low. True Microsoft Way. It remembers me funny examples from Alan Cooper book 'The Inmates Are Running the Asylum'.

polshaw 15y ago
> It will crash when booting and corrupt my data I'm sorry but i have to call you out here; i would be suprised if MS hasn't thought of this in some way; whether detecting changes and initating a more complete boot or dealing with it in the GUI.. but even if it required you to select a 'full' shutdown/boot, i would say it was completely worth it for a 7s boot time. Further, i find your imagination regarding the practical handling of these power states rather lacking. The way i see it there will simply be 'reboot', 'power off' (which hibernates the kernel as described in the article, reloading it where checks show necessary), and 'standby' (which also writes ram to disk allowing resuming from hibernate with power loss -- i would imagine this could be turned off with a setting). So, contrary to your rant, i am going to bet that there will be one less standard option. But i guess things were better in the w95 days?.
- mkup 15y ago
  > whether detecting changes and initating a more complete boot or dealing with it in the GUI. Sure, they can detect hw changes and make full cold boot, therefore losing all RAM data which was saved to the disk at the point of hibernation. (It would be like a quick dirty reset.) Or they can restore that data back to RAM and crash the kernel instantly. In either case, RAM contents are lost. So each time I turn off the PC, I have to plan ahead, "do I want to use poweroff-type-I or poweroff-type-II option?" If I won't guess right, then I lose my data.
  - polshaw 15y ago
    This new 'power off' isn't meant to be a full hibernate. It only stores the kernel-related RAM, not your data. So you would only lose your kernel data, which would be reloaded in the 'full' boot. Full hibernate is still a separate entity (or at least, a part of standby as i'd predict). This is not a change from now; if you hibernate and then change your hardware, yes, you will lose data.
    - mkup 15y ago
      OK, now I get the idea Still there could be some edge cases - like hibernating filesystem cache as a part of kernel-related RAM , then shutting down, booting Linux, changing the filesystem and then booting windows (which does not know that filesystem pages were changed from outside and working with obsolete copy from cache). This one is a non-issue actually, because Linux ntfs-3g driver deletes hiberfil.sys when mounting NTFS partition in R/W mode, but there could be other edge cases like this one.
    - mkup 15y ago
      ... A firmware upgrade, for example. Or some jumpers changed.

by mkup 15y ago

polshaw 15y ago

> It will crash when booting and corrupt my data I'm sorry but i have to call you out here; i would be suprised if MS hasn't thought of this in some way; whether detecting changes and initating a more complete boot or dealing with it in the GUI.. but even if it required you to select a 'full' shutdown/boot, i would say it was completely worth it for a 7s boot time. Further, i find your imagination regarding the practical handling of these power states rather lacking. The way i see it there will simply be 'reboot', 'power off' (which hibernates the kernel as described in the article, reloading it where checks show necessary), and 'standby' (which also writes ram to disk allowing resuming from hibernate with power loss -- i would imagine this could be turned off with a setting). So, contrary to your rant, i am going to bet that there will be one less standard option. But i guess things were better in the w95 days?.

mkup 15y ago
> whether detecting changes and initating a more complete boot or dealing with it in the GUI. Sure, they can detect hw changes and make full cold boot, therefore losing all RAM data which was saved to the disk at the point of hibernation. (It would be like a quick dirty reset.) Or they can restore that data back to RAM and crash the kernel instantly. In either case, RAM contents are lost. So each time I turn off the PC, I have to plan ahead, "do I want to use poweroff-type-I or poweroff-type-II option?" If I won't guess right, then I lose my data.
- polshaw 15y ago
  This new 'power off' isn't meant to be a full hibernate. It only stores the kernel-related RAM, not your data. So you would only lose your kernel data, which would be reloaded in the 'full' boot. Full hibernate is still a separate entity (or at least, a part of standby as i'd predict). This is not a change from now; if you hibernate and then change your hardware, yes, you will lose data.
  - mkup 15y ago
    OK, now I get the idea Still there could be some edge cases - like hibernating filesystem cache as a part of kernel-related RAM , then shutting down, booting Linux, changing the filesystem and then booting windows (which does not know that filesystem pages were changed from outside and working with obsolete copy from cache). This one is a non-issue actually, because Linux ntfs-3g driver deletes hiberfil.sys when mounting NTFS partition in R/W mode, but there could be other edge cases like this one.
  - mkup 15y ago
    ... A firmware upgrade, for example. Or some jumpers changed.