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> Basically, Adobe is acknowledging Apple has won when it comes to Flash. Why does this article have to have a "vs." narrative? Is it possible that Adobe just

by tomlin 15y ago

> Basically, Adobe is acknowledging Apple has won when it comes to Flash. Why does this article have to have a "vs." narrative? Is it possible that Adobe just wants to succeed and will do what it takes to gain profits? And I'm not so sure Apple has won just yet. If a device were to gain the traction necessary to gain enough marketshare (you saw a bit of this with HP's TouchPad), we support Flash is a pretty decent incentive for the average consumer who isn't caught up in the HTML5 vs. Flash war (read: every average person).

wmeredith 15y ago
Uh, I'm pretty sure the average person doesn't know (or care) what Flash is.
- watty 15y ago
  Agreed, my mom still doesn't understand why her "Smilebox" doesn't work on her iPad (video slideshow software).
- tomlin 15y ago
  Agreed. Further to my point, the average person will take a look at a lego block vs. the video they want to see and make their assumptions and decisions based on that, assuming other factors match or exceed iPad's.
yardie 15y ago
If Flash was as strong as an incentive as you claim it is than iPad sales should have leveled off once Android tablets came to be. we support Flash hasn't turned out to be as big as an incentive as Android tablet makers had hoped. As far as I'm concerned most people are waiting for the >200 android tablet, Flash or no Flash. For the time being it's an iPad market and Adobe has to pivot around that. I believe in the beginning Apple wasn't against the idea of Flash, but Adobe couldn't deliver (they didn't deliver anything until almost 3 years later) and by the time they did deliver something Apple realized they could do without.
- tomlin 15y ago
  Right, except the Android tablets are not better than an iPad (read: no individual Android branded tablet has exceeded the sales of the iPad). Apple's position in the market isn't static. If a competing product came out and was better than iPad's offerings (read: matching engineering, design and ecosystem brilliance) people would certainly entertain a different product. Now add Flash. You can't see how that would be possible?
tomelders 15y ago
Well considering the rhetoric from Apple & Adobe regarding iOS and flash, it's definitely been an "us vs them" scenario. Adobe were very quick to publicly criticise Apple for not supporting Flash in iOS, and Apple were very quick to respond with equally stern comments. So I think the author is correct to frame it in those terms. As for the article, I think it's very balanced. Yes, this is a "win" for Apple, because Adobe have adapted to iOS, not the other way around, and Adobe have been very clear on this issue. They wanted iOS to support flash. But the article also goes on to say that this is a big step forward for Adobe. Which it is, and that's a positive comment for Adobe. And finally, "we support Flash is a pretty decent incentive for the average consumer who isn't caught up in the HTML5 vs. Flash war" Wh.... wh..... what?
- tomlin 15y ago
  > Adobe were very quick to publicly criticize Apple for not supporting Flash in iOS, and Apple were very quick to respond with equally stern comments. It should be right vs. wrong, not "I have an iPad, so therefore..." The vs. narrative is ridiculous because both companies muddy up the facts. How can you be on either company's side? Both sides mask intentions and facts. Adobe isn't for any particular user's innovation. And Apple is not for open, web-based apps. Try and upload an image or file from your iPhone from Safari. See how the standardized file input doesn't work? Not exactly enticing me to create a web-based app for the iOS. When you come to defend Adobe and Apple based on their false intentions, you just further falsify the industry as a whole. Dissension is the highest form of patriotism. It's okay to be critical when it's appropriate.
  - tomelders 15y ago
    I have my own opinion on Flash, but I don't think I was defending one or the other in that comment. The point was, it was absolutely an Adobe vs Apple battle of wills scenario. We can debate wether the "vs" mentality was right or wrong, but that doesn't change the fact that Apple and Adobe went head to head, very publicly, over this issue. And Apple won, I don't see any other realistic or pragmatic way to call it.

by tomlin 15y ago

wmeredith 15y ago

Uh, I'm pretty sure the average person doesn't know (or care) what Flash is.

watty 15y ago
Agreed, my mom still doesn't understand why her "Smilebox" doesn't work on her iPad (video slideshow software).
tomlin 15y ago
Agreed. Further to my point, the average person will take a look at a lego block vs. the video they want to see and make their assumptions and decisions based on that, assuming other factors match or exceed iPad's.

yardie 15y ago

If Flash was as strong as an incentive as you claim it is than iPad sales should have leveled off once Android tablets came to be. we support Flash hasn't turned out to be as big as an incentive as Android tablet makers had hoped. As far as I'm concerned most people are waiting for the >200 android tablet, Flash or no Flash. For the time being it's an iPad market and Adobe has to pivot around that. I believe in the beginning Apple wasn't against the idea of Flash, but Adobe couldn't deliver (they didn't deliver anything until almost 3 years later) and by the time they did deliver something Apple realized they could do without.

tomlin 15y ago
Right, except the Android tablets are not better than an iPad (read: no individual Android branded tablet has exceeded the sales of the iPad). Apple's position in the market isn't static. If a competing product came out and was better than iPad's offerings (read: matching engineering, design and ecosystem brilliance) people would certainly entertain a different product. Now add Flash. You can't see how that would be possible?

tomelders 15y ago

Well considering the rhetoric from Apple & Adobe regarding iOS and flash, it's definitely been an "us vs them" scenario. Adobe were very quick to publicly criticise Apple for not supporting Flash in iOS, and Apple were very quick to respond with equally stern comments. So I think the author is correct to frame it in those terms. As for the article, I think it's very balanced. Yes, this is a "win" for Apple, because Adobe have adapted to iOS, not the other way around, and Adobe have been very clear on this issue. They wanted iOS to support flash. But the article also goes on to say that this is a big step forward for Adobe. Which it is, and that's a positive comment for Adobe. And finally, "we support Flash is a pretty decent incentive for the average consumer who isn't caught up in the HTML5 vs. Flash war" Wh.... wh..... what?

tomlin 15y ago
> Adobe were very quick to publicly criticize Apple for not supporting Flash in iOS, and Apple were very quick to respond with equally stern comments. It should be right vs. wrong, not "I have an iPad, so therefore..." The vs. narrative is ridiculous because both companies muddy up the facts. How can you be on either company's side? Both sides mask intentions and facts. Adobe isn't for any particular user's innovation. And Apple is not for open, web-based apps. Try and upload an image or file from your iPhone from Safari. See how the standardized file input doesn't work? Not exactly enticing me to create a web-based app for the iOS. When you come to defend Adobe and Apple based on their false intentions, you just further falsify the industry as a whole. Dissension is the highest form of patriotism. It's okay to be critical when it's appropriate.
- tomelders 15y ago
  I have my own opinion on Flash, but I don't think I was defending one or the other in that comment. The point was, it was absolutely an Adobe vs Apple battle of wills scenario. We can debate wether the "vs" mentality was right or wrong, but that doesn't change the fact that Apple and Adobe went head to head, very publicly, over this issue. And Apple won, I don't see any other realistic or pragmatic way to call it.