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fellow small farmer(live stock only) with a day gig. The only benefit to having a small farm these days is it provides a tax shelter, and an enjoyable(yet diff

fellow small farmer(live stock only) with a day gig. The only benefit to having a small farm these days is it provides a tax shelter, and an enjoyable(yet difficult) hobby. Even if you outright own the land, by the time you figure in maintenance and equipment on any cattle farm under 500-1000 head of cattle you simply can't turn a profit in a meaningful way. What you CAN do is use it as a tax shelter where you sorta break even if you squint and hope.

jdavis703 5y ago
Why is all the pasture raised, permaculture, organic blah blah stuff all so expensive if it’s not profitable? If I’m paying $12 for a dozen eggs when I can get non-sustainable, conventionally raised eggs from some megacorp for $3 then where is all the money going? Any consumer paying $12 for eggs certainly wouldn’t mind $13, which could then be profit.
- cinntaile 5y ago
  $12 dollars for 12 eggs? The goose is dead but the hen is still going strong.
- HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
  Holy christ. If I could $12/dozen for my eggs I'd start raising chickens again! Where are you buying those?
  - phillypham 5y ago
    At Seattle and NYC farmers markets, I regularly pay $12 a dozen. The eggs are often sold out, so others are, too.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
      Must be nice. The main cost input to eggs is chicken feed. Assume a $15 bag will keep a dozen hens fed for a month, that's about 240 eggs (assuming 2 eggs per hen every 3 days) at a cost of $15 so about $0.06 per egg. Cost will drop significantly if chickens are kept on pasture and the labor inputs for a flock of a few dozen are minimal. It may not be enough to live on but for a hobby, it's pretty much free money. Although I assume the market charges a stall fee that will eat into profits, but still...
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
      I don't go to the local farmer's market because it's too political, but supermarket eggs here are often under $1.00/dz (presumably sold as a loss leader) and the most expensive "certified pasture raised" eggs are about $6/dz.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  It is expensive precisely because it’s not profitable. Imagine if you were a builder, selling artisanal houses built without use of any power tools, only with organic manual labor, using materials prepared with organic manual labor only. You’d be building one deck in the same time it takes normal builders to build an entire house. The only way you could make a living this way would be if you charged multiples of what normal construction costs. But, even then, you’d still complain about your business not being profitable, as you’d have troubles finding people who will pay as much. Myself, I like good eggs, but I’m not paying $1/egg.
  - biztos 5y ago
    > I like good eggs, but I’m not paying $1/egg It looks like Whole Foods charges about half that for fancy organic eggs. However, if you sold them at the Ferry Building in San Francisco and had a good story about why your eggs were special, I think you could get $12 a dozen. How many of us are going to balk at $1/egg after we just paid $5 for an espresso and are ogling the $50 bottles of olive oil? Especially if we've been conditioned to not eat too many eggs because "cholesterol."
    - jdavis703 5y ago
      Exactly, scrambled eggs or an omelette at a restaurant easily costs more than $1/egg. Obviously restaurants have all other costs. But in the grand scheme of things, if you’re living in an expensive place like NYC or SF, it doesn’t seem like that much.
      - xyzzyz 5y ago
        How much would the restaurant breakfast cost, if the restaurant was buying $1 eggs and other similarly expensive ingredients?
    - xyzzyz 5y ago
      The point here is that if Starbucks was buying as expensive coffee as are those organic $1 eggs, it would be $10-15 espresso. I’m happy to pay $1 for egg, if it comes with the rest of the breakfast in form of a sit down restaurant service. But paying $12 just for a carton of dozen eggs? No way.
voakbasda 5y ago
In the US, the tax shelter plan only works if you are profitable 3 out of any given sequence of 5 years. Otherwise, the IRS prohibits deductions from "hobby farms". Be sure you check with an accountant, unless you have been showing a clear profit from your farming activities. In my experience, a small farmer basically needs to cook their books to appear profitable. Profit is not realistic if you include all of the actual costs.

jdavis703 5y ago

Why is all the pasture raised, permaculture, organic blah blah stuff all so expensive if it’s not profitable? If I’m paying $12 for a dozen eggs when I can get non-sustainable, conventionally raised eggs from some megacorp for $3 then where is all the money going? Any consumer paying $12 for eggs certainly wouldn’t mind $13, which could then be profit.

cinntaile 5y ago
$12 dollars for 12 eggs? The goose is dead but the hen is still going strong.
HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
Holy christ. If I could $12/dozen for my eggs I'd start raising chickens again! Where are you buying those?
- phillypham 5y ago
  At Seattle and NYC farmers markets, I regularly pay $12 a dozen. The eggs are often sold out, so others are, too.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
    Must be nice. The main cost input to eggs is chicken feed. Assume a $15 bag will keep a dozen hens fed for a month, that's about 240 eggs (assuming 2 eggs per hen every 3 days) at a cost of $15 so about $0.06 per egg. Cost will drop significantly if chickens are kept on pasture and the labor inputs for a flock of a few dozen are minimal. It may not be enough to live on but for a hobby, it's pretty much free money. Although I assume the market charges a stall fee that will eat into profits, but still...
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    I don't go to the local farmer's market because it's too political, but supermarket eggs here are often under $1.00/dz (presumably sold as a loss leader) and the most expensive "certified pasture raised" eggs are about $6/dz.
xyzzyz 5y ago
It is expensive precisely because it’s not profitable. Imagine if you were a builder, selling artisanal houses built without use of any power tools, only with organic manual labor, using materials prepared with organic manual labor only. You’d be building one deck in the same time it takes normal builders to build an entire house. The only way you could make a living this way would be if you charged multiples of what normal construction costs. But, even then, you’d still complain about your business not being profitable, as you’d have troubles finding people who will pay as much. Myself, I like good eggs, but I’m not paying $1/egg.
- biztos 5y ago
  > I like good eggs, but I’m not paying $1/egg It looks like Whole Foods charges about half that for fancy organic eggs. However, if you sold them at the Ferry Building in San Francisco and had a good story about why your eggs were special, I think you could get $12 a dozen. How many of us are going to balk at $1/egg after we just paid $5 for an espresso and are ogling the $50 bottles of olive oil? Especially if we've been conditioned to not eat too many eggs because "cholesterol."
  - jdavis703 5y ago
    Exactly, scrambled eggs or an omelette at a restaurant easily costs more than $1/egg. Obviously restaurants have all other costs. But in the grand scheme of things, if you’re living in an expensive place like NYC or SF, it doesn’t seem like that much.
    - xyzzyz 5y ago
      How much would the restaurant breakfast cost, if the restaurant was buying $1 eggs and other similarly expensive ingredients?
  - xyzzyz 5y ago
    The point here is that if Starbucks was buying as expensive coffee as are those organic $1 eggs, it would be $10-15 espresso. I’m happy to pay $1 for egg, if it comes with the rest of the breakfast in form of a sit down restaurant service. But paying $12 just for a carton of dozen eggs? No way.

voakbasda 5y ago

In the US, the tax shelter plan only works if you are profitable 3 out of any given sequence of 5 years. Otherwise, the IRS prohibits deductions from "hobby farms". Be sure you check with an accountant, unless you have been showing a clear profit from your farming activities. In my experience, a small farmer basically needs to cook their books to appear profitable. Profit is not realistic if you include all of the actual costs.