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You just have to look at the wikipedia page for the green revolution to see how it's unsustainable: it relies on fertilisers derived from fossil and mineral res

You just have to look at the wikipedia page for the green revolution to see how it's unsustainable: it relies on fertilisers derived from fossil and mineral resources that are now limited and cannot be replenished. Alternative methods like permaculture are trying to avoid reliance on such non-renewable inputs. The wealth of society that allows us to have food so cheap right now is all thanks to a whole lot of 20th century infrastructure that was developed using fossil fuels and other mineral resources which can't last forever and are furthermore destroying our life support ecosystems. I believe that, aside from the potential for automation that you mention, we are likely going to end up shifting to a standard of living where our food just costs a lot more. This will happen either because we shift to more sustainable methods that are less efficient, or because we don't and society collapses.

colechristensen 5y ago
The biggest fertilizer input is nitrogen, usually as ammonia or a derivative, produced by reacting atmospheric hydrogen with fossil derived methane. It would be entirely possible to acquire this methane from renewable resources (cows, landfill, compost) but isn’t economical and not a huge source of fossil usage anyway. The rest of the mineral fertilizers still have to come from somewhere, when you take them away with the harvested food you have to find them somewhere to put them back. “Permaculture” isn’t magic that produces potassium from good feelings. There are plenty of cycles for each resource and as a farmer you have to participate in them, which usually means regularly adding things to your soil.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  Hmm. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/25/fertilizer-shortage-north-america-farmers-food-prices https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/25/fertiliz... [2] https://www.agriculture.com/crops/fertilizers/high-cost-short-supply-of-fertilizer-to-alter-2022-planting https://www.agriculture.com/crops/fertilizers/high-cost-shor... [3] https://fortune.com/2021/11/04/energy-crisis-food-shortage-security-fertilizer-prices-yara-ceo-madagascar-cop26/ https://fortune.com/2021/11/04/energy-crisis-food-shortage-s... ?

colechristensen 5y ago

The biggest fertilizer input is nitrogen, usually as ammonia or a derivative, produced by reacting atmospheric hydrogen with fossil derived methane. It would be entirely possible to acquire this methane from renewable resources (cows, landfill, compost) but isn’t economical and not a huge source of fossil usage anyway. The rest of the mineral fertilizers still have to come from somewhere, when you take them away with the harvested food you have to find them somewhere to put them back. “Permaculture” isn’t magic that produces potassium from good feelings. There are plenty of cycles for each resource and as a farmer you have to participate in them, which usually means regularly adding things to your soil.

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
Hmm. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/25/fertilizer-shortage-north-america-farmers-food-prices https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/25/fertiliz... [2] https://www.agriculture.com/crops/fertilizers/high-cost-short-supply-of-fertilizer-to-alter-2022-planting https://www.agriculture.com/crops/fertilizers/high-cost-shor... [3] https://fortune.com/2021/11/04/energy-crisis-food-shortage-security-fertilizer-prices-yara-ceo-madagascar-cop26/ https://fortune.com/2021/11/04/energy-crisis-food-shortage-s... ?