4 ms·

EVs require 2.3x the chips of ICE. (not orders of magnitude, apologies for the hyperbole) https://www.idtechex.com/en/research-article/ev-power-electronics-dri

EVs require 2.3x the chips of ICE. (not orders of magnitude, apologies for the hyperbole) https://www.idtechex.com/en/research-article/ev-power-electronics-driving-semiconductor-demand-in-a-chip-shortage/24820 https://www.idtechex.com/en/research-article/ev-power-electr...

sliken 5y ago
Interesting, and weird. Although that's measured by $, not per chip, per per mm^2 of silicon. I suspect electric cars (being newer designs) tend to use much newer chips, where the traditional ICE manufacturers are often using many generation old processes and paying rock bottom prices. So during shortages the cheap chips don't get made as fabs migrate production to the most profitable/newer chips. Based on the tear downs I've seen I believe the 2000+ chips in the model S/X, but would be surprised if a model 3/y even had as many as 1000 (the number in a ICE vehicle). The model S/X were crazy complex, CPUs for each door lock, each window motor, each windshield motor, etc. As a result VW, Ford, GM, Chevy, etc have to halt production lines, while Tesla has a record year.
- bonestamp2 5y ago
  > The model S/X were crazy complex, CPUs for each door lock, each window motor, each windshield motor, etc. A lot of ICE cars have similar complexity in these systems. It's much easier to put a module in each component and just send messages on the bus to control them. Most newer cars also detect objects in the path of the window and will stop/reverse the window to prevent pinching. While EVs might have more $ in chips, I also suspect they have a lower chip count as more indicators and interactions are handled on screen. Meanwhile, most ICE vehicles still have analog gauges, analog gear shifters, physical gear selection illuminators, etc. and all of these need chips.
  - sliken 5y ago
    I compared a 2019 Model 3 to a BMW i3, Chevy Bolt, and a Nissan Leaf (as well as a fair number of ICE cars like subarus, bmw 335, VW Golf R). I did notice that the entertainment system/nav/music, etc where worlds apart. The Tesla felt like a current smartphone, pinch/zoom, fast UI, easy to use, and pretty good speech recognition. The others felt like 5-10 year old phones, similar in feeling to even my ancient nokia 770 with Maemo mapper. Monroe (on youtube) did a breakdown and said that the only other place he say CPU/ASIC/Sensor integration like on the model 3 was in satellites. Apparently there's a large CPU with a ton of pins that handles quite a bit of cars needs. Even the usually Bosche supplied ABS/Stability management/traction control functionality has been merged into the Tesla chip.
    - bonestamp2 5y ago
      > Even the usually Bosche supplied ABS/Stability management/traction control functionality has been merged into the Tesla chip. That's interesting... that's usually it's own ECU on most cars.
      - mywittyname 5y ago
        I can see why they might do it this way. ABS/SC in ICE cars tend to focus mostly on the braking system. Since most ICE cars are two-wheel drive with an open differential, there's not much that can be done from a stability point of view besides cutting power. Even AWD cars with computer-controlled differentials have response times that are too long to really be of much use in an emergency situation. EVs, OTOH, can apply or reduce torque to the wheels much faster than even the brakes can respond. And being able to not only apply stopping force to a wheel, but also apply torque to another wheel makes for a totally different approach to stability management.
        11thEarlOfMar 5y ago
        Here's an interesting anecdote: Tesla cars have traction control that monitors the differential in rotation speed among the four tires. If you put new tires on the rear and leave worn tires on the front, the rotation differential between the inside rear and outside front on a tight curve is enough to fool the traction control into thinking the worn front tire is slipping and will pulse the brakes on that wheel only. It's pretty unnerving. Put new tires on the front and the problem is solved.
        Unklejoe 5y ago
        This happens on my BMW too (2011 3 series). I’ve also had traction/stability control activate when hitting a large bump due to the slight change in wheel speed as each wheel goes over it.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
abducer 5y ago
2.3x is a base 2 order of magnitude, so you were technically correct.

sliken 5y ago

Interesting, and weird. Although that's measured by $, not per chip, per per mm^2 of silicon. I suspect electric cars (being newer designs) tend to use much newer chips, where the traditional ICE manufacturers are often using many generation old processes and paying rock bottom prices. So during shortages the cheap chips don't get made as fabs migrate production to the most profitable/newer chips. Based on the tear downs I've seen I believe the 2000+ chips in the model S/X, but would be surprised if a model 3/y even had as many as 1000 (the number in a ICE vehicle). The model S/X were crazy complex, CPUs for each door lock, each window motor, each windshield motor, etc. As a result VW, Ford, GM, Chevy, etc have to halt production lines, while Tesla has a record year.

bonestamp2 5y ago
> The model S/X were crazy complex, CPUs for each door lock, each window motor, each windshield motor, etc. A lot of ICE cars have similar complexity in these systems. It's much easier to put a module in each component and just send messages on the bus to control them. Most newer cars also detect objects in the path of the window and will stop/reverse the window to prevent pinching. While EVs might have more $ in chips, I also suspect they have a lower chip count as more indicators and interactions are handled on screen. Meanwhile, most ICE vehicles still have analog gauges, analog gear shifters, physical gear selection illuminators, etc. and all of these need chips.
- sliken 5y ago
  I compared a 2019 Model 3 to a BMW i3, Chevy Bolt, and a Nissan Leaf (as well as a fair number of ICE cars like subarus, bmw 335, VW Golf R). I did notice that the entertainment system/nav/music, etc where worlds apart. The Tesla felt like a current smartphone, pinch/zoom, fast UI, easy to use, and pretty good speech recognition. The others felt like 5-10 year old phones, similar in feeling to even my ancient nokia 770 with Maemo mapper. Monroe (on youtube) did a breakdown and said that the only other place he say CPU/ASIC/Sensor integration like on the model 3 was in satellites. Apparently there's a large CPU with a ton of pins that handles quite a bit of cars needs. Even the usually Bosche supplied ABS/Stability management/traction control functionality has been merged into the Tesla chip.
  - bonestamp2 5y ago
    > Even the usually Bosche supplied ABS/Stability management/traction control functionality has been merged into the Tesla chip. That's interesting... that's usually it's own ECU on most cars.
    - mywittyname 5y ago
      I can see why they might do it this way. ABS/SC in ICE cars tend to focus mostly on the braking system. Since most ICE cars are two-wheel drive with an open differential, there's not much that can be done from a stability point of view besides cutting power. Even AWD cars with computer-controlled differentials have response times that are too long to really be of much use in an emergency situation. EVs, OTOH, can apply or reduce torque to the wheels much faster than even the brakes can respond. And being able to not only apply stopping force to a wheel, but also apply torque to another wheel makes for a totally different approach to stability management.
      - 11thEarlOfMar 5y ago
        Here's an interesting anecdote: Tesla cars have traction control that monitors the differential in rotation speed among the four tires. If you put new tires on the rear and leave worn tires on the front, the rotation differential between the inside rear and outside front on a tight curve is enough to fool the traction control into thinking the worn front tire is slipping and will pulse the brakes on that wheel only. It's pretty unnerving. Put new tires on the front and the problem is solved.
        Unklejoe 5y ago
        This happens on my BMW too (2011 3 series). I’ve also had traction/stability control activate when hitting a large bump due to the slight change in wheel speed as each wheel goes over it.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

abducer 5y ago

2.3x is a base 2 order of magnitude, so you were technically correct.