8 ms·

Great write up which also illustrates how deep DRM/closed systems are in cars built this century. Until around mid 90's cars still had lots of relays and barel

Great write up which also illustrates how deep DRM/closed systems are in cars built this century. Until around mid 90's cars still had lots of relays and barely comprehensible wiring looms if you could get your hands on workshop manuals. The sooner we go back to a BEV with the simplicity of a 1960's VW Beetle the better imo, not least so that the third world can get a look in.

Beached 5y ago
pretty sure this won't happen. regulations require computerized standards to be used for various parts of a cars functions. this would require some insane lobbying to pull off.
t0mas88 5y ago
So far electric vehicles are getting worse not better, because they're less regulated on things like OBD access. And manufactures see them as a chance to make an always connected car that phones home. Tesla was first but everyone else is copying them now.
- grishka 5y ago
  It's not like you can't disable these network interfaces one way or another. And of course it'll still work without this connectivity.
  - trulyme 5y ago
    For now. Like web pages used to work if you disabled JavaScript.
    - grishka 5y ago
      This is different. Cars could potentially be driven far away from civilization, so their reliability is sometimes critical for their occupants' survival. A car can't disable itself and leave people stranded in the middle of nowhere just because it doesn't have a cellular signal to phone home. And btw, many web pages do still work if you disable js. I'm saying that as someone who routinely disables js for websites that abuse it.
      - userbinator 5y ago
        Unfortunately, that situation has already happened: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20873234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20873234
        grishka 5y ago
        That was at least a carsharing car. It's a well-known fact that these need connectivity (your only means of unlocking them is the app, after all) and have a severely limited area where you could drive them. Though that one time when I took a carsharing car 70 km away from the city where it apparently couldn't communicate (but my phone had LTE) it didn't disable itself, it just didn't lock when the app thought it did. So it does depend on the particular way the particular company implemented its remote control unit I guess? I'm talking more about the situation where it's your own car.
- olivermarks 5y ago
  My concern is that all vehicles are becoming more and more surveilled, transmitting hugely personal data. Once level 4 centralized control is possible I predict pre permissioned requested travel will quickly follow. We urgently need a new generation of very basic transportation devices. The 3rd world relies on Toyo HiLuxes etc which are still easy to keep running. LandRover used to be all over the third world because they were rugged, basic and easy to work on. You'd think Tata who now own them would be continuing the tradition but they are building luxury vehicles with no clear purpose except signaling pretensions to offroad abilities. Embroidered with ECM controlled chips, wiring and sensors...</rant>
  - C19is20 5y ago
    Gdpr could be your friend.
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      GDPR is not enforced enough and it's very hard to get it enforced. Data protection authorities are completely useless at handling complaints from my experience.
  - blamazon 5y ago
    Individuals are not powerless in this fight. We can use democracy to try to maintain our freedom. The people of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts recently voted to enact the following: > “Question 1 (2020) required manufacturers that sell motor vehicles equipped with telematics systems to install a standardized open data platform beginning with model year 2022. The initiative defined telematics systems as a system in a motor vehicle that collects information generated by the operation of the vehicle that is then transmitted through wireless communications to a remote receiving point where it is stored. The measure allowed vehicle owners to access telematics system data through a mobile device application and to give consent for independent repair facilities to access that data and send commands to the system for repair, maintenance, and diagnostic testing.” https://ballotpedia.org/Massachusetts_Question_1,_%22Right_to_Repair_Law%22_Vehicle_Data_Access_Requirement_Initiative_(2020) https://ballotpedia.org/Massachusetts_Question_1,_%22Right_t...

Beached 5y ago

pretty sure this won't happen. regulations require computerized standards to be used for various parts of a cars functions. this would require some insane lobbying to pull off.

t0mas88 5y ago

So far electric vehicles are getting worse not better, because they're less regulated on things like OBD access. And manufactures see them as a chance to make an always connected car that phones home. Tesla was first but everyone else is copying them now.

grishka 5y ago
It's not like you can't disable these network interfaces one way or another. And of course it'll still work without this connectivity.
- trulyme 5y ago
  For now. Like web pages used to work if you disabled JavaScript.
  - grishka 5y ago
    This is different. Cars could potentially be driven far away from civilization, so their reliability is sometimes critical for their occupants' survival. A car can't disable itself and leave people stranded in the middle of nowhere just because it doesn't have a cellular signal to phone home. And btw, many web pages do still work if you disable js. I'm saying that as someone who routinely disables js for websites that abuse it.
    - userbinator 5y ago
      Unfortunately, that situation has already happened: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20873234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20873234
      - grishka 5y ago
        That was at least a carsharing car. It's a well-known fact that these need connectivity (your only means of unlocking them is the app, after all) and have a severely limited area where you could drive them. Though that one time when I took a carsharing car 70 km away from the city where it apparently couldn't communicate (but my phone had LTE) it didn't disable itself, it just didn't lock when the app thought it did. So it does depend on the particular way the particular company implemented its remote control unit I guess? I'm talking more about the situation where it's your own car.
olivermarks 5y ago
My concern is that all vehicles are becoming more and more surveilled, transmitting hugely personal data. Once level 4 centralized control is possible I predict pre permissioned requested travel will quickly follow. We urgently need a new generation of very basic transportation devices. The 3rd world relies on Toyo HiLuxes etc which are still easy to keep running. LandRover used to be all over the third world because they were rugged, basic and easy to work on. You'd think Tata who now own them would be continuing the tradition but they are building luxury vehicles with no clear purpose except signaling pretensions to offroad abilities. Embroidered with ECM controlled chips, wiring and sensors...</rant>
- C19is20 5y ago
  Gdpr could be your friend.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    GDPR is not enforced enough and it's very hard to get it enforced. Data protection authorities are completely useless at handling complaints from my experience.
- blamazon 5y ago
  Individuals are not powerless in this fight. We can use democracy to try to maintain our freedom. The people of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts recently voted to enact the following: > “Question 1 (2020) required manufacturers that sell motor vehicles equipped with telematics systems to install a standardized open data platform beginning with model year 2022. The initiative defined telematics systems as a system in a motor vehicle that collects information generated by the operation of the vehicle that is then transmitted through wireless communications to a remote receiving point where it is stored. The measure allowed vehicle owners to access telematics system data through a mobile device application and to give consent for independent repair facilities to access that data and send commands to the system for repair, maintenance, and diagnostic testing.” https://ballotpedia.org/Massachusetts_Question_1,_%22Right_to_Repair_Law%22_Vehicle_Data_Access_Requirement_Initiative_(2020) https://ballotpedia.org/Massachusetts_Question_1,_%22Right_t...