5 ms·

indeed Romania in the 80s was like North Korea

random314 5y ago
Economically, Romania was one of the wealthier countries in the Eastern bloc in the 80s. The fall of the communist government actually led to an economic downturn which took several years to recover from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Romania#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Romania#History
- marmakoide 5y ago
  Romania was in full crunch mode in the 80's to reimburse quickly it debts. It was at the expense of most Romanians
- underscore_ku 5y ago
  Romania in 89 was the poorest country in Europe after Albania. a failed state just like the rest communist states
  - random314 5y ago
    I am talking about the eastern bloc. For eg, Poland, Albania, Ukraine and several other Soviet states were poorer. Romanian economy collapsed after fall of the Soviet union in 1988
- oblio 5y ago
  Hi there, history rewriter ! First of all, Romania wasn't the one of the wealthiest countries in the Eastern bloc at almost any point. East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and even the USSR for a while were ahead. Secondly, even if that were true, Ceaușescu went on a North Korean craze (the OG kpop fan), massive parades and autarky (economic self sufficiency) included. The Romanian economy reached its relative Communist peak before 1980, because Ceaușescu crashed it afterwards trying to pay all foreign debt. Not some, all of it. Oh, and he built the second largest building in the world (current day Palace of the Parliament), spending roughly 1 full state budget on it). Romania crashed hard because we were making stuff nobody wanted. We were selling it inside the Eastern bloc to captive buyers. On top of that privatization was delayed and initially it was only to internal cronies.
  - AniseAbyss 5y ago
    He was also a very popular figure in the West because Romania went against the USSR. The only leader from the East who was welcomed with full regards by the West at every opportunity. Understandable since as a dictator Ceaușescu only cared about himself not Communist ideology.
  - random314 5y ago
    I did not say Romania was the richest eastern bloc state. It was relatively wealthier amongst them. Poland, Ukraine, n Korea- all of them were poorer. I gave a citation as well. You can also look here to see the strong per capita gdp growth rate pre 1989 in the 70s and 80s. Romania started off very poor. https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania?year=1990 https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania?year=1990 Romania grew to a per capita gdp of ~2600$ in 1988 from ~600$ in 1970, while N Korea has a gdp per capita of $600 today - after 50 years. Also, I didn't comment about Ceaușescu. So, I am not sure what you are responding to.
    - oblio 5y ago
      Are you Romanian? Because your comment seems like one of those jokes about aliens seeing humans cooking and then reproducing what the humans are creating, but without the taste, because their monitoring doesn't capture that. Ceaușescu was the dictator for the entire period you're mentioning, any discussion about Romania in the 70s and 80s implicitly refers to him. Other than that, Romania's growth was fake from many aspects and almost no Romanian alive at the time will agree with you that the 80s where better for Romania, economically, than the 70s. Romania's economy was geared towards exporting everything useful, including food, to non competitive markets. Figures were inflated at every level. Vanity projects were taking up half the Romanian economy. Backyard furnaces 2.0. Make stuff nobody wants or needs, of crap quality, while not feeding people. And regarding North Korea, it's well documented that Ceaușescu was emulating Kim. But otherwise we were more developed than North Korea since at least the Korean War, so those numbers don't say much. If anything we went down, closer to their level, during the 80s.
      - 5y ago
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  I have no idea about Romanian history, but I had the opportunity to work with some Romanian software engineers, and they were some of the best I've encountered.
  - random314 5y ago
    Romania also performs unusually well at the international math olympiad, given its population and economy.
  - vixen99 5y ago
    Not surprising given the Romanian education system. It's great for the high-achievers. Extremely demanding and rigorous. Anecdotally I get the impression that it's not so hot for those who don't fall into this category or are late developers. If only they could fix that.

Economically, Romania was one of the wealthier countries in the Eastern bloc in the 80s. The fall of the communist government actually led to an economic downturn which took several years to recover from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Romania#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Romania#History

marmakoide 5y ago
Romania was in full crunch mode in the 80's to reimburse quickly it debts. It was at the expense of most Romanians
underscore_ku 5y ago
Romania in 89 was the poorest country in Europe after Albania. a failed state just like the rest communist states
- random314 5y ago
  I am talking about the eastern bloc. For eg, Poland, Albania, Ukraine and several other Soviet states were poorer. Romanian economy collapsed after fall of the Soviet union in 1988
oblio 5y ago
Hi there, history rewriter ! First of all, Romania wasn't the one of the wealthiest countries in the Eastern bloc at almost any point. East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and even the USSR for a while were ahead. Secondly, even if that were true, Ceaușescu went on a North Korean craze (the OG kpop fan), massive parades and autarky (economic self sufficiency) included. The Romanian economy reached its relative Communist peak before 1980, because Ceaușescu crashed it afterwards trying to pay all foreign debt. Not some, all of it. Oh, and he built the second largest building in the world (current day Palace of the Parliament), spending roughly 1 full state budget on it). Romania crashed hard because we were making stuff nobody wanted. We were selling it inside the Eastern bloc to captive buyers. On top of that privatization was delayed and initially it was only to internal cronies.
- AniseAbyss 5y ago
  He was also a very popular figure in the West because Romania went against the USSR. The only leader from the East who was welcomed with full regards by the West at every opportunity. Understandable since as a dictator Ceaușescu only cared about himself not Communist ideology.
- random314 5y ago
  I did not say Romania was the richest eastern bloc state. It was relatively wealthier amongst them. Poland, Ukraine, n Korea- all of them were poorer. I gave a citation as well. You can also look here to see the strong per capita gdp growth rate pre 1989 in the 70s and 80s. Romania started off very poor. https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania?year=1990 https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania?year=1990 Romania grew to a per capita gdp of ~2600$ in 1988 from ~600$ in 1970, while N Korea has a gdp per capita of $600 today - after 50 years. Also, I didn't comment about Ceaușescu. So, I am not sure what you are responding to.
  - oblio 5y ago
    Are you Romanian? Because your comment seems like one of those jokes about aliens seeing humans cooking and then reproducing what the humans are creating, but without the taste, because their monitoring doesn't capture that. Ceaușescu was the dictator for the entire period you're mentioning, any discussion about Romania in the 70s and 80s implicitly refers to him. Other than that, Romania's growth was fake from many aspects and almost no Romanian alive at the time will agree with you that the 80s where better for Romania, economically, than the 70s. Romania's economy was geared towards exporting everything useful, including food, to non competitive markets. Figures were inflated at every level. Vanity projects were taking up half the Romanian economy. Backyard furnaces 2.0. Make stuff nobody wants or needs, of crap quality, while not feeding people. And regarding North Korea, it's well documented that Ceaușescu was emulating Kim. But otherwise we were more developed than North Korea since at least the Korean War, so those numbers don't say much. If anything we went down, closer to their level, during the 80s.
    - 5y ago
ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
I have no idea about Romanian history, but I had the opportunity to work with some Romanian software engineers, and they were some of the best I've encountered.
- random314 5y ago
  Romania also performs unusually well at the international math olympiad, given its population and economy.
- vixen99 5y ago
  Not surprising given the Romanian education system. It's great for the high-achievers. Extremely demanding and rigorous. Anecdotally I get the impression that it's not so hot for those who don't fall into this category or are late developers. If only they could fix that.