4 ms·

I don't think his work travels particularly well in the West. It is steeped in symbolism, deep metaphysics and calm, meditative, photography. All attributes tha

I don't think his work travels particularly well in the West. It is steeped in symbolism, deep metaphysics and calm, meditative, photography. All attributes that have been essentially banned from the fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences. Its a bit like pop music. If all you've ever heard is (basic) western harmony and suddenly get exposed to some weird oriental stuff it does not even register as music..

qbasic_forever 5y ago
There are directors in the west that have similar ideas and even see some mainstream success, for example Terrence Malik.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
telesilla 5y ago
Wow that's a big statement, about the west. I just watched Nine Days (US, https://ninedaysfilm.com https://ninedaysfilm.com) which was rich with Tarkovskian references. I could name hundreds of western films that are deeply moving and affecting beyond their words. Where to start.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_film#Timeline_of_notable_films https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_film#Timeline_of_notable_f...
mhh__ 5y ago
You say that even though Tarkovsky is absolutely worshipped by Western film fans?
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  Sure, cinephiles, but most people in the US haven't heard of Tarkovsky. Even fairly educated people I've suggested a Tarkovsky film to will give me a blank expression and say "who?"
  - varjag 5y ago
    His name is better known across the former USSR, but I really doubt his viewership is any broader.
    - UncleOxidant 5y ago
      I was introduced to Tarkovsky by a Russian co-worker in the late 90s. She said that during the soviet times Tarkovsky movies were only allowed to be seen by the elites (her family fell into that category) and were thus not widely viewed then.
Barrin92 5y ago
I'm not sure if he's as good as Tarkovsky or as important, but Alex Garland reminds me a lot of him. Annihilation had a very soviet sci-fi feel to it, and there's a scene in Ex Machina that funnily enough mirrors the discussion at the top of the thread about interpreting art.
stinkytaco 5y ago
> It is steeped in symbolism, deep metaphysics and calm, meditative, photography. All attributes that have been essentially banned from the fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences. Whoa... this is a bold claim. I can think of western films that use techniques like this: 2001: A Space Odyssey, Thin Red Line, Breathless, anything by Bergman, and The Royal Tenenbaums, for example, and many more that employ some of those traits. Additionally, implicit in the suggestion that not having those things somehow makes it "fast food production" (and thus of low quality), is rather unfair to the many western and non-western artists who have honed they're storytelling craft in a variety of styles. I love Tarkovsky and Solaris remains one of my favorite films, but I also like suspense films like Alien or action movies like Enter the Dragon, and many others which are frenetic, scary, fun or exciting.
- ctchocula 5y ago
  Not GP, but I think by "fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences" they are taking a potshot at the swathe of superhero movies being very formulaic rather than any West vs. Soviet Russia argument and how only Soviet Russia makes meaningful films. For example, every superhero gets 30s of screentime and a few sarcastic quips. The story is black and white, because you know who the good guys and bad guys are. The dominance of franchise movies has vastly restricted the opportunities for other kinds of films to be seen in cinemas. In his essay [1], Martin Scorcese makes a much better case for it than I can, but the gist of it is that while before there were high-brow and low-brow films, now Hollywood is taking the cynical approach that the low-brow films make the most money in a low risk way rather than art for art's sake. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-marvel.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-m...
- streamofdigits 5y ago
  There are ofcourse both filmmakers and films in the West that explore similar domains. And I generally love them (for the same reason I love Tarkovsky's work). But when I check what audiences say about said work (and even well known art critics) in 99% of the cases I am left with the impression they live in an another planet. The analogies, metaphors and other symbolism fail to trigger recognition of the "multiple levels" involved and thus also to elicit the emotional response that follows from linking to our current realities. It is almost as an old story appreciation ability has been lost...
daneel_w 5y ago
Perhaps not in the American West - I could be wrong - but certainly so in the European West.
Bayart 5y ago
By "West", do you mean the US ? He's always been extremely popular with cinephiles in Western Europe. If anything, he's closer to Dreyer than Eisenstein (which is hinted at in the article) and fits well in the lineage of European film-makers.

qbasic_forever 5y ago

There are directors in the west that have similar ideas and even see some mainstream success, for example Terrence Malik.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

telesilla 5y ago

Wow that's a big statement, about the west. I just watched Nine Days (US, https://ninedaysfilm.com https://ninedaysfilm.com) which was rich with Tarkovskian references. I could name hundreds of western films that are deeply moving and affecting beyond their words. Where to start.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_film#Timeline_of_notable_films https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_film#Timeline_of_notable_f...

mhh__ 5y ago

You say that even though Tarkovsky is absolutely worshipped by Western film fans?

UncleOxidant 5y ago
Sure, cinephiles, but most people in the US haven't heard of Tarkovsky. Even fairly educated people I've suggested a Tarkovsky film to will give me a blank expression and say "who?"
- varjag 5y ago
  His name is better known across the former USSR, but I really doubt his viewership is any broader.
  - UncleOxidant 5y ago
    I was introduced to Tarkovsky by a Russian co-worker in the late 90s. She said that during the soviet times Tarkovsky movies were only allowed to be seen by the elites (her family fell into that category) and were thus not widely viewed then.

Barrin92 5y ago

I'm not sure if he's as good as Tarkovsky or as important, but Alex Garland reminds me a lot of him. Annihilation had a very soviet sci-fi feel to it, and there's a scene in Ex Machina that funnily enough mirrors the discussion at the top of the thread about interpreting art.

stinkytaco 5y ago

> It is steeped in symbolism, deep metaphysics and calm, meditative, photography. All attributes that have been essentially banned from the fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences. Whoa... this is a bold claim. I can think of western films that use techniques like this: 2001: A Space Odyssey, Thin Red Line, Breathless, anything by Bergman, and The Royal Tenenbaums, for example, and many more that employ some of those traits. Additionally, implicit in the suggestion that not having those things somehow makes it "fast food production" (and thus of low quality), is rather unfair to the many western and non-western artists who have honed they're storytelling craft in a variety of styles. I love Tarkovsky and Solaris remains one of my favorite films, but I also like suspense films like Alien or action movies like Enter the Dragon, and many others which are frenetic, scary, fun or exciting.

ctchocula 5y ago
Not GP, but I think by "fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences" they are taking a potshot at the swathe of superhero movies being very formulaic rather than any West vs. Soviet Russia argument and how only Soviet Russia makes meaningful films. For example, every superhero gets 30s of screentime and a few sarcastic quips. The story is black and white, because you know who the good guys and bad guys are. The dominance of franchise movies has vastly restricted the opportunities for other kinds of films to be seen in cinemas. In his essay [1], Martin Scorcese makes a much better case for it than I can, but the gist of it is that while before there were high-brow and low-brow films, now Hollywood is taking the cynical approach that the low-brow films make the most money in a low risk way rather than art for art's sake. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-marvel.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-m...
streamofdigits 5y ago
There are ofcourse both filmmakers and films in the West that explore similar domains. And I generally love them (for the same reason I love Tarkovsky's work). But when I check what audiences say about said work (and even well known art critics) in 99% of the cases I am left with the impression they live in an another planet. The analogies, metaphors and other symbolism fail to trigger recognition of the "multiple levels" involved and thus also to elicit the emotional response that follows from linking to our current realities. It is almost as an old story appreciation ability has been lost...

daneel_w 5y ago

Perhaps not in the American West - I could be wrong - but certainly so in the European West.

Bayart 5y ago

By "West", do you mean the US ? He's always been extremely popular with cinephiles in Western Europe. If anything, he's closer to Dreyer than Eisenstein (which is hinted at in the article) and fits well in the lineage of European film-makers.