8 ms·

The attitude in this thread is the exact opposite of constructive. It is a great library that the person is giving you for free. Yes it can be improved, yes it

The attitude in this thread is the exact opposite of constructive. It is a great library that the person is giving you for free. Yes it can be improved, yes it you should not use it everywhere, but can you at least appreciate the execution and the fact that there is a real person behind it who can read the entitled diarrhea y'all "hur dur the internet should be just html and usenet" ppl are spewing? HN has become one of the worst places to have one's work demonstrated at.

dang 5y ago
This looks like a case of the contrarian dynamic [1]. Dismissive comments tend to appear first, not because they represent the community, but because they're the fastest to write. Often there's a wave of such comments objecting to the OP, followed by a second wave objecting to the objections with some variation of "I can't believe how negative the comments here are". The irony is that they're driven by the same impulse—to make objections—they're just objecting to different things. The second wave of objections tends (ironically!) to get upvoted to the top of the thread. Whether that's because people's minds are open to the creativity in the OP or because they enjoy disses of other people (i.e. the rest of the community) even more than they enjoy disses of someone's work, we can leave as an exercise to the reader. This impulse governs the internet but it isn't the greatest thing on a site that values intellectual curiosity [2], because it's essentially reflexive: people see something that activates a previously existing grievance (be it battery-draining websites, bad internet comments, or what have you), which generates irritation and therefore energy to produce a post, but the post is actually litigating the generic grievance rather than responding to anything interestingly new. To get the latter, one has to perceive the new information and digest it in a way that leads to a new response—that is, one must be reflective rather than reflexive [3]—and that is a much slower process. But we definitely want reflective comments here. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22contrarian%20dynamic%22%20objection%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=reflective%20reflex%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... --- Edit: I'd like to add a response specifically to this: > HN has become one of the worst places to have one's work demonstrated at ... by pointing out that https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29786132 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29786132 is currently at #1 on the front page. It's very much a question of which examples you notice and how much weight you put on them.
- darau1 5y ago
  What if we force people to wait before they can comment?
  - noduerme 5y ago
    Like, what if we make them wait forever? That would be awesome. FWIW as much as I hate to accept dang's logic of the overcoming anti-anti-ness of every thread, it does seem true, so why not just let the thing play out...?
    - darau1 5y ago
      > why not just let the thing play out I think because it could kill the thread, or demotivate the OP. People reflexively rejecting my contributions would demotivate me.
      - noduerme 5y ago
        Naw. You have to just gird yourself for the hit. It's true, what he says. The first wave is brutal. Nothing _anyone_ says should demotivate _you_. Your motivation has to come from your own inside vision. Having people talk shit about it is actually a sign that you're doing something right, because they're jealous. The only time you should worry is if they say nothing at all.. =\
  - dang 5y ago
    We tend to be wary of technical solutions to human problems. I fear the unintended side effects.
    - ___q 5y ago
      HN is rife with "technical solutions to human problems" already, which is why new users can't downvote posts. It improved Stack Overflow, it would work here.
      - 5y ago
commvnion 5y ago
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't post supercilious dismissals of other people. We all do it, and we all like it, but it's not intellectually interesting and therefore should be resisted on this site. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: the parent comment originally read "You have a bunch of engineers and designers that have been programmed to think they have to improve everything they come across. Its hard for them to appreciate anything without imagining how they would've done it. Relax people." Please don't make retaliatory edits. It deprives threads of their context and is not in the spirit of the site.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Some are constructive criticism in that a lot of despise the direction of over engineering websites that take away from the core purpose. You can do that respectfully however. I'm sure the coding and end result are unique and nice to look at but why should I clam up every time something like this comes out? Something like this makes sense for a web based game or kid's site but lord help us if it becomes expected, so we speak out. For example I'm viewing this on an older machine that I'm vnc'd into. My cpu useage on the 12 cores went from 1-8% usage to 40-60% usage per core. To me that is wasted CPU. I'm sure the author can just ignore those comments and move on to ones that are more appreciative and concentrate on their contribution to the community. You have to have a thick skin as an open source (or even regular) developer.
- ruined 5y ago
  so just don't let noscript run it. your browser is under your control, right?

dang 5y ago

This looks like a case of the contrarian dynamic [1]. Dismissive comments tend to appear first, not because they represent the community, but because they're the fastest to write. Often there's a wave of such comments objecting to the OP, followed by a second wave objecting to the objections with some variation of "I can't believe how negative the comments here are". The irony is that they're driven by the same impulse—to make objections—they're just objecting to different things. The second wave of objections tends (ironically!) to get upvoted to the top of the thread. Whether that's because people's minds are open to the creativity in the OP or because they enjoy disses of other people (i.e. the rest of the community) even more than they enjoy disses of someone's work, we can leave as an exercise to the reader. This impulse governs the internet but it isn't the greatest thing on a site that values intellectual curiosity [2], because it's essentially reflexive: people see something that activates a previously existing grievance (be it battery-draining websites, bad internet comments, or what have you), which generates irritation and therefore energy to produce a post, but the post is actually litigating the generic grievance rather than responding to anything interestingly new. To get the latter, one has to perceive the new information and digest it in a way that leads to a new response—that is, one must be reflective rather than reflexive [3]—and that is a much slower process. But we definitely want reflective comments here. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22contrarian%20dynamic%22%20objection%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=reflective%20reflex%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... --- Edit: I'd like to add a response specifically to this: > HN has become one of the worst places to have one's work demonstrated at ... by pointing out that https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29786132 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29786132 is currently at #1 on the front page. It's very much a question of which examples you notice and how much weight you put on them.

darau1 5y ago
What if we force people to wait before they can comment?
- noduerme 5y ago
  Like, what if we make them wait forever? That would be awesome. FWIW as much as I hate to accept dang's logic of the overcoming anti-anti-ness of every thread, it does seem true, so why not just let the thing play out...?
  - darau1 5y ago
    > why not just let the thing play out I think because it could kill the thread, or demotivate the OP. People reflexively rejecting my contributions would demotivate me.
    - noduerme 5y ago
      Naw. You have to just gird yourself for the hit. It's true, what he says. The first wave is brutal. Nothing _anyone_ says should demotivate _you_. Your motivation has to come from your own inside vision. Having people talk shit about it is actually a sign that you're doing something right, because they're jealous. The only time you should worry is if they say nothing at all.. =\
- dang 5y ago
  We tend to be wary of technical solutions to human problems. I fear the unintended side effects.
  - ___q 5y ago
    HN is rife with "technical solutions to human problems" already, which is why new users can't downvote posts. It improved Stack Overflow, it would work here.
    - 5y ago

commvnion 5y ago

dang 5y ago
Please don't post supercilious dismissals of other people. We all do it, and we all like it, but it's not intellectually interesting and therefore should be resisted on this site. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: the parent comment originally read "You have a bunch of engineers and designers that have been programmed to think they have to improve everything they come across. Its hard for them to appreciate anything without imagining how they would've done it. Relax people." Please don't make retaliatory edits. It deprives threads of their context and is not in the spirit of the site.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

stjohnswarts 5y ago

Some are constructive criticism in that a lot of despise the direction of over engineering websites that take away from the core purpose. You can do that respectfully however. I'm sure the coding and end result are unique and nice to look at but why should I clam up every time something like this comes out? Something like this makes sense for a web based game or kid's site but lord help us if it becomes expected, so we speak out. For example I'm viewing this on an older machine that I'm vnc'd into. My cpu useage on the 12 cores went from 1-8% usage to 40-60% usage per core. To me that is wasted CPU. I'm sure the author can just ignore those comments and move on to ones that are more appreciative and concentrate on their contribution to the community. You have to have a thick skin as an open source (or even regular) developer.

ruined 5y ago
so just don't let noscript run it. your browser is under your control, right?