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I have tried this many times in the past. The problem I have had with internet addiction is that the phone itself is the cue, craving, response, & reward. I had

I have tried this many times in the past. The problem I have had with internet addiction is that the phone itself is the cue, craving, response, & reward. I had to resort to locking my phone in one of those timed kitchen containers to make any progress. It's sad to admit I do this, but the only way I've found myself to make a clear barrier is by having a physical barrier. I've tried shortcuts, VPNs, mindfulness apps, etc. Nothing really sticks if it's on the phone itself. On-top of that, having to give each device a job has worked wonders as well. My phone is my personal/entertainment device. I don't need it majority of the time if at all. My computer on the other hand is my work device where I do the things I should be doing instead of endlessly scrolling (coding, writing, etc). Screentime on macOS can show you how many times you pick up your phone and it makes me quite sad to see the numbers before doing any of this. There are other apps that count how many times you open a specific app like https://apps.apple.com/us/app/one-sec-take-a-deep-breath/id1532875441 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/one-sec-take-a-deep-breath/id1... which reveals the same thing on an app basis.

nkcmr 5y ago
I totally agree with what you're saying. If you simply try limiting it, the brain will just want it. I think turning it into a "reward" for getting things done puts the addiction in a different light, and at least for me, it has made it easier to respect the barriers I have put into place. So instead of "no apps allowed!" it is now "hey, do these good habits, and once your done you can have the apps" creates.. (idk I'm not a psychologist or anything), but a more genial approach to limiting the addiction and it feels more effective as a result.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
thathndude 5y ago
There is absolutely nothing “sad” in admitting this. The great lie of the latter half of the 20th century was this mistaken belief that there is some baseline, normal for humans. Although I think it can go off the rails a bit sometimes, one of the most promising aspects of medical research and science in the last 20 years has been a recognition of how our brains work differently, and how much of our behavior is largely out of our control. And from that comes a wonderfully freeing idea. Specifically, that what works for one person is not going to work for everyone. It’s a blessing to find what works for you (even if it’s “abnormal”), and to have the courage to do what’s best for you.
- monopoledance 5y ago
  Amen. For those with poor executive functioning, or ADHD, I can really recommend the podcast "Hacking your ADHD": https://www.hackingyouradhd.com/podcast https://www.hackingyouradhd.com/podcast Ironically, it's less focused on "productivity hacks", but rather a functional self-understanding why we "fuck up" and how to manage our limited brain resources and most importantly: Anticipation of willpower depletion/different moods and mindsets. Personally, I thing the typical "productivity hacks" blog posts shared here, are quite toxic, as they rarely speak about resources, resting and regeneration, or ask why work anyway? Especially coming from the US, where people work much longer, have less time off. There is a flair of normalizing self-exploitation and walking a path towards burn-out and sickness, and I don't even think most of those blog post are authentic, long term success stories - just farming clicks and subscribers for the attention market. They are much like Instagram distorting self-expectations. The ADHD community is a parody of the HN crowd in that regard, people share new "super effective" tricks and routines enthusiastically all the time. Finally we found the solution! But sober us knows these tricks will not stick for more than a week or two - and really, we shouldn't be online right now to begin with. The thing is, that improving daily task management is not to be thought of as a project, but am ongoing maintenance process. So in that community, there is also the sentiment of changing "routines" all the time, to keep them interesting and challenging. So maybe, you even need come up with a new scheme every day. That's fine too. In any case, I dare you to not forget to evaluate your need for regeneration, day dreaming, sleep and pleasure, and anticipate different moods and mindsets you know will be present.
  - beckman466 5y ago
    > The ADHD community is a parody of the HN crowd in that regard, people share new "super effective" tricks and routines enthusiastically all the time. Finally we found the solution! sounds a bit like https://reddit.com/r/thanksimcured https://reddit.com/r/thanksimcured
    - monopoledance 5y ago
      Yeah, but as a monologue. The thing with ADHD folks is, we constantly seek stimulation/neuronal excitement, so if we manage to do anything, we somehow tricked our brain into enthusiasm, or hit another strong motivator like anxiety, or shame. And working out productivity "hacks" itself is usually some spin-off from a much more pressing task, or self-entertainment. Everything feels super important and like the best idea ever; enthusiasm is the only way. So naturally, we tend to share tricks and "habits" before they have proven effective - they just felt really important... - as they have not been tested against the boredom of every day. And not everyone in that community is self-meta yet, sees the patterns and gets a bit wary in face of those "good ideas". Honestly, I think everyone can learn something from ADHD behavior, as we're just the essence of executive dysfunction and impulsivity, the deconstruction of "motivation" (egosyntonic task scheduling) and actionable impulse (actually switching tasks), the deep end of a spectrum. Usually people can relate to our problems, they are just not problems in their lives as much.
eloeffler 5y ago
Curiously, it seems to be the backlight that's the cue for me. Anything, a phone, a laptop, a desk screen, can bring me into a distracted state very quickly. I really hope e-ink devices will give me a bit of a relief once they become affordable (which is delayed due to expensive patents, as I understand it). I experience this when trying to read lenghty text on e-ink devices vs. a computer screen or phone. On the other hand, a kindle or remarkable don't give me as many options to distract myself so a more versatile device might still distract me even with e-ink. Time will tell but for now it subjectively feels like the light emission (any color) has a very adverse effect on me, unless distraction is what I'm looking for :(
- kubanczyk 5y ago
  You could try a self-lit e-ink (like Kindle Paperwhite) to determine whether it's the light emission. I doubt it. I see the same kind of distraction in myself, and it's not triggered on any e-ink reader, whether lit or not. So it seems to be related to functionality indeed. Important point is that I've never used a web browser on any reader.
- person101x 5y ago
  You may be interested in the Light Phone which uses an e-ink screen. I've been thinking of getting one myself, but can't quite pull the trigger.
- robinsoh 5y ago
  > which is delayed due to expensive patents, as I understand it I keep asking about this since I see it repeatedly remarked on here. Please see my comment history. It doesn't appear to be true. My understanding is that it is about volume, as with almost everything display related.
  - eloeffler 5y ago
    I will check your comments, thanks!
u2077 5y ago
I often let my phone run out of battery and put it in a completely different room (not charging). Like your locked box, the only way I don’t get distracted is if I can’t access the device even if I wanted to.
dcoo 5y ago
Agree with the other commenters - it's not sad to admit to designing your environment in a way that is conducive to good habits. I use something similar to the timer container method as well. Our brains are plastic, and there will only be more evidence showing how phones have significantly altered them.
throwJan21 5y ago
My part solution is to get an old phone with a small screen. It makes playing many games nearly unbearable and the whole experience much less enjoyable. Ideally I'd like to get rid of my phone altogether but is hard to live without some things like Uber and email. Has anyone managed this? Work requires Authenticator assumes everyone has a phone too.
archsurface 5y ago
I realised the multi-purpose device problem one evening when wanting to turn on my living room wifi-iot-light. I picked up my phone to use the light app, saw notifications, checked the news, checked some other things, put the phone down. A few minutes later, I remembered I wanted to turn the light on. Picked up the phone, saw notifications, checked the news, checked some other things, put the phone down. A few minutes later, I remembered the light, picked up the phone, started checking things, and thought wtf am I doing, I've just checked these apps twice already!? Stood dumbfounded and concerned at my obsession, then remembered, oh, the light! Distractions.
- hk__2 5y ago
  This is exactly my issue. My OTP app is on my phone so I have to use it half a dozen times a day. I reduced notifications to the bare minimum (only messaging apps) but just checking one of them deviates me from the thing I was trying to achieve (get the OTP and go back to work) and it’s too late. I haven’t tried the new "do not disturb" improvements in iOS 15 so maybe there’s something interesting there. Edit: I just tried with the "at work" setting that allows you to disable notification badges and other things during work hours; let’s see how it goes.
  - mkingston 5y ago
    There are OTP apps for desktop operating systems. Hopefully that helps!
  - BoiledCabbage 5y ago
    But a second cheap phone. Uninstall everything from it, no data plan, wifi only and use it as a remote control.
  - MarcelOlsz 5y ago
    >I haven’t tried the new "do not disturb" improvements in iOS 15 so maybe there’s something interesting there. If only I can have DND on 24/7 and not have the home notif about it that would be golden.
- 5y ago
collin128 5y ago
Live this and have a similar system, I think of them as content zones. Two ideas I haven't seen in other comments are: 1. Kindle next to bed for reading (leave phone out of reach/in another room to charge helps) 2. Good book on back of toilet and no phone allowed in there. Helps start the day with a small piece of learning. I started #2 (sorry) when I was struggling to finish Seeking Wisdom and figured reading 5 mins a day would get me through. Took 3 months but it worked and turned out to be the perfect place to digest dense content like it.
miniatureape 5y ago
I’ve been considering getting an Apple Watch with cell service, so I can just leave my phone in a drawer most of the day but still be a answer 2fa pushes and be in touch in case of emergencies. But I’m worried I’m trying to fix the problem with more technology. Anyone try this out?
- speg 5y ago
  While I still struggle with reaching for my phone, the watch has made things much easier. I try and leave the phone in the front entrance. After that, I can still be “connected” with the watch. Messages from my wife, emails if I need to check them and of course phone calls. Lie others have said, I think the key is physically removing the phone.

nkcmr 5y ago

I totally agree with what you're saying. If you simply try limiting it, the brain will just want it. I think turning it into a "reward" for getting things done puts the addiction in a different light, and at least for me, it has made it easier to respect the barriers I have put into place. So instead of "no apps allowed!" it is now "hey, do these good habits, and once your done you can have the apps" creates.. (idk I'm not a psychologist or anything), but a more genial approach to limiting the addiction and it feels more effective as a result.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

thathndude 5y ago

There is absolutely nothing “sad” in admitting this. The great lie of the latter half of the 20th century was this mistaken belief that there is some baseline, normal for humans. Although I think it can go off the rails a bit sometimes, one of the most promising aspects of medical research and science in the last 20 years has been a recognition of how our brains work differently, and how much of our behavior is largely out of our control. And from that comes a wonderfully freeing idea. Specifically, that what works for one person is not going to work for everyone. It’s a blessing to find what works for you (even if it’s “abnormal”), and to have the courage to do what’s best for you.

monopoledance 5y ago
Amen. For those with poor executive functioning, or ADHD, I can really recommend the podcast "Hacking your ADHD": https://www.hackingyouradhd.com/podcast https://www.hackingyouradhd.com/podcast Ironically, it's less focused on "productivity hacks", but rather a functional self-understanding why we "fuck up" and how to manage our limited brain resources and most importantly: Anticipation of willpower depletion/different moods and mindsets. Personally, I thing the typical "productivity hacks" blog posts shared here, are quite toxic, as they rarely speak about resources, resting and regeneration, or ask why work anyway? Especially coming from the US, where people work much longer, have less time off. There is a flair of normalizing self-exploitation and walking a path towards burn-out and sickness, and I don't even think most of those blog post are authentic, long term success stories - just farming clicks and subscribers for the attention market. They are much like Instagram distorting self-expectations. The ADHD community is a parody of the HN crowd in that regard, people share new "super effective" tricks and routines enthusiastically all the time. Finally we found the solution! But sober us knows these tricks will not stick for more than a week or two - and really, we shouldn't be online right now to begin with. The thing is, that improving daily task management is not to be thought of as a project, but am ongoing maintenance process. So in that community, there is also the sentiment of changing "routines" all the time, to keep them interesting and challenging. So maybe, you even need come up with a new scheme every day. That's fine too. In any case, I dare you to not forget to evaluate your need for regeneration, day dreaming, sleep and pleasure, and anticipate different moods and mindsets you know will be present.
- beckman466 5y ago
  > The ADHD community is a parody of the HN crowd in that regard, people share new "super effective" tricks and routines enthusiastically all the time. Finally we found the solution! sounds a bit like https://reddit.com/r/thanksimcured https://reddit.com/r/thanksimcured
  - monopoledance 5y ago
    Yeah, but as a monologue. The thing with ADHD folks is, we constantly seek stimulation/neuronal excitement, so if we manage to do anything, we somehow tricked our brain into enthusiasm, or hit another strong motivator like anxiety, or shame. And working out productivity "hacks" itself is usually some spin-off from a much more pressing task, or self-entertainment. Everything feels super important and like the best idea ever; enthusiasm is the only way. So naturally, we tend to share tricks and "habits" before they have proven effective - they just felt really important... - as they have not been tested against the boredom of every day. And not everyone in that community is self-meta yet, sees the patterns and gets a bit wary in face of those "good ideas". Honestly, I think everyone can learn something from ADHD behavior, as we're just the essence of executive dysfunction and impulsivity, the deconstruction of "motivation" (egosyntonic task scheduling) and actionable impulse (actually switching tasks), the deep end of a spectrum. Usually people can relate to our problems, they are just not problems in their lives as much.

eloeffler 5y ago

Curiously, it seems to be the backlight that's the cue for me. Anything, a phone, a laptop, a desk screen, can bring me into a distracted state very quickly. I really hope e-ink devices will give me a bit of a relief once they become affordable (which is delayed due to expensive patents, as I understand it). I experience this when trying to read lenghty text on e-ink devices vs. a computer screen or phone. On the other hand, a kindle or remarkable don't give me as many options to distract myself so a more versatile device might still distract me even with e-ink. Time will tell but for now it subjectively feels like the light emission (any color) has a very adverse effect on me, unless distraction is what I'm looking for :(

kubanczyk 5y ago
You could try a self-lit e-ink (like Kindle Paperwhite) to determine whether it's the light emission. I doubt it. I see the same kind of distraction in myself, and it's not triggered on any e-ink reader, whether lit or not. So it seems to be related to functionality indeed. Important point is that I've never used a web browser on any reader.
person101x 5y ago
You may be interested in the Light Phone which uses an e-ink screen. I've been thinking of getting one myself, but can't quite pull the trigger.
robinsoh 5y ago
> which is delayed due to expensive patents, as I understand it I keep asking about this since I see it repeatedly remarked on here. Please see my comment history. It doesn't appear to be true. My understanding is that it is about volume, as with almost everything display related.
- eloeffler 5y ago
  I will check your comments, thanks!

u2077 5y ago

I often let my phone run out of battery and put it in a completely different room (not charging). Like your locked box, the only way I don’t get distracted is if I can’t access the device even if I wanted to.

dcoo 5y ago

Agree with the other commenters - it's not sad to admit to designing your environment in a way that is conducive to good habits. I use something similar to the timer container method as well. Our brains are plastic, and there will only be more evidence showing how phones have significantly altered them.

throwJan21 5y ago

My part solution is to get an old phone with a small screen. It makes playing many games nearly unbearable and the whole experience much less enjoyable. Ideally I'd like to get rid of my phone altogether but is hard to live without some things like Uber and email. Has anyone managed this? Work requires Authenticator assumes everyone has a phone too.

archsurface 5y ago

I realised the multi-purpose device problem one evening when wanting to turn on my living room wifi-iot-light. I picked up my phone to use the light app, saw notifications, checked the news, checked some other things, put the phone down. A few minutes later, I remembered I wanted to turn the light on. Picked up the phone, saw notifications, checked the news, checked some other things, put the phone down. A few minutes later, I remembered the light, picked up the phone, started checking things, and thought wtf am I doing, I've just checked these apps twice already!? Stood dumbfounded and concerned at my obsession, then remembered, oh, the light! Distractions.

hk__2 5y ago
This is exactly my issue. My OTP app is on my phone so I have to use it half a dozen times a day. I reduced notifications to the bare minimum (only messaging apps) but just checking one of them deviates me from the thing I was trying to achieve (get the OTP and go back to work) and it’s too late. I haven’t tried the new "do not disturb" improvements in iOS 15 so maybe there’s something interesting there. Edit: I just tried with the "at work" setting that allows you to disable notification badges and other things during work hours; let’s see how it goes.
- mkingston 5y ago
  There are OTP apps for desktop operating systems. Hopefully that helps!
- BoiledCabbage 5y ago
  But a second cheap phone. Uninstall everything from it, no data plan, wifi only and use it as a remote control.
- MarcelOlsz 5y ago
  >I haven’t tried the new "do not disturb" improvements in iOS 15 so maybe there’s something interesting there. If only I can have DND on 24/7 and not have the home notif about it that would be golden.
5y ago

collin128 5y ago

Live this and have a similar system, I think of them as content zones. Two ideas I haven't seen in other comments are: 1. Kindle next to bed for reading (leave phone out of reach/in another room to charge helps) 2. Good book on back of toilet and no phone allowed in there. Helps start the day with a small piece of learning. I started #2 (sorry) when I was struggling to finish Seeking Wisdom and figured reading 5 mins a day would get me through. Took 3 months but it worked and turned out to be the perfect place to digest dense content like it.

miniatureape 5y ago

I’ve been considering getting an Apple Watch with cell service, so I can just leave my phone in a drawer most of the day but still be a answer 2fa pushes and be in touch in case of emergencies. But I’m worried I’m trying to fix the problem with more technology. Anyone try this out?

speg 5y ago
While I still struggle with reaching for my phone, the watch has made things much easier. I try and leave the phone in the front entrance. After that, I can still be “connected” with the watch. Messages from my wife, emails if I need to check them and of course phone calls. Lie others have said, I think the key is physically removing the phone.