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Roku is now publicly traded so its beholden to getting quarterly value for shareholder. Investors have deemed all of this data collecting valuable. Capitalism k

Roku is now publicly traded so its beholden to getting quarterly value for shareholder. Investors have deemed all of this data collecting valuable. Capitalism killing innovation by making it another homogeneous device that doesn't respect you doesn't surprise me.

noduerme 5y ago
Me neither in the long run, but it definitely surprised me on Christmas Day how much data they wanted to collect. One bit at a time I've been offended and shocked by it since I came back to this country in 2015 but I gotta say, watching how totally docile and copacetic my girlfriend was about this boot-up experience was more interesting than any of what they were trying to collect. It was totally weird to her that I was telling her not to put in any of this info and that I would return it for her. She was done entering her data before I could mount a full argument why she shouldn't. I know, I'm just a hideous boyfriend. That's not the point though. I was really offended and I tried several ways to get around the boot process without verifying by email. This only succeeded in delaying our HBO show by 20 minutes. She was just like, let me do this. Ok no problem, she said, I verified it. Now how are gonna expect companies to act civilized when almost everyone's already conditioned to hand over their life every time they're asked?
robertlagrant 5y ago
> Capitalism killing innovation by making it another homogeneous device that doesn't respect you doesn't surprise me. What is this weird fascination with capitalism on HN? If a socialist government thought collecting data was a good idea and directed its resources that way, would that okay? My read is (rightly or wrongly) they want to have cloud services, and cloud services require identification.
- JKCalhoun 5y ago
  > What is this weird fascination with capitalism on HN? It's the one doing the data collecting in our lives.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    Parent's point is that you'd be a lot less likely complain about even worse data collection if you lived in China, and it was done in the name of the "people" - but you wouldn't be quieter because you really believed it was for the people. You'd be quieter because you were scared to say things about the System. You're lucky to live in a System that pays you to have a public opinion about it.
    - brightstep 5y ago
      The alternatives being worse doesn't make a critique of a system less valid. Yes, it's good that we have free political speech and yes, it's true that capitalism's incentives drive decisions like invasive data collection.
      - noduerme 5y ago
        Breath of fresh air to read that in one perfect paragraph. I only set up straw men when I'm bored. So ok. It's interesting how capitalist and authoritarian motives converge when it comes to violating individuals' privacy. You're leaving me hanging. Under the current system in America I can use VPNs and all kinds of ways to hide my identity, even if it does get harder to buy a Roku. There's no such ability in China, let alone a right to pursue your ability to protect your identity. Identity and individuality are simply not a thing. Capitalism does, because is sells individualism (Chevy trucks, Coors Beer, the Green Bay Packers) - it does have to grudgingly allow individual people to, you know, act as individuals. From time to time. This is a difference that a lot of people gloss over, but it's the reason all those assholes voted for Trump, which just proves that it can be harnessed. But moreover, rank obstinacy isn't necessarily a bad thing when the alternative is totalitarianism.
      - robertlagrant 5y ago
        All incentives are the same in that regard - wanting to have and know more things. That's nothing to do with capitalism. Capitalism lives within that desire, as does socialism. Capitalism and socialism (excluding others for time) only differ on who gets to allocate resources. Do independent parties allocate their resources based on mutual agreements, within a legal framework run by a central authority? Or does a central authority allocate resources, within a legal framework run by that central authority?
- AstralStorm 5y ago
  No they don't. You could and should provide a baseline experience with no account. The account could be used for extra, like say sharing favorites across devices. Even storing payment details or favorites on the device is trivial. It's not done because it's not trackable and the user data sellable.
- noduerme 5y ago
  > My read is (rightly or wrongly) they want to have cloud services, and cloud services require identification. On this, no one ever bought a Roku because they expected it to upload something.
- brightstep 5y ago
  It's the global economic system, and it's incentives and structures drive decisions that individuals and companies make. Seems pretty relevant to this discussion, and most discussions since many if not most of our choices are economic ones.
- tome 5y ago
  > > Capitalism killing innovation by making it another homogeneous device that doesn't respect you doesn't surprise me. > What is this weird fascination with capitalism on HN? "Comments on the internet" make a lot more sense to me now that I've started reading "capitalism" as "unbridled pursuit of profit". It's a shame that the general internet population seems to think those concepts are one and the same but I'm not sure I have the energy to try to do anything about it.
  - robertlagrant 5y ago
    Makes sense, but even then, not much. An unbridled pursuit of profit would mean quite a few business owners would be having their competitors killed and forcing people to work at gunpoint, with no repercussions.
kortilla 5y ago
> Roku is now publicly traded so its beholden to getting quarterly value for shareholder. Investors have deemed all of this data collecting valuable This is not at all now decision making works in publicly traded companies. The feedback loop is much tighter and private companies are just as susceptible to making these decisions.

noduerme 5y ago

Me neither in the long run, but it definitely surprised me on Christmas Day how much data they wanted to collect. One bit at a time I've been offended and shocked by it since I came back to this country in 2015 but I gotta say, watching how totally docile and copacetic my girlfriend was about this boot-up experience was more interesting than any of what they were trying to collect. It was totally weird to her that I was telling her not to put in any of this info and that I would return it for her. She was done entering her data before I could mount a full argument why she shouldn't. I know, I'm just a hideous boyfriend. That's not the point though. I was really offended and I tried several ways to get around the boot process without verifying by email. This only succeeded in delaying our HBO show by 20 minutes. She was just like, let me do this. Ok no problem, she said, I verified it. Now how are gonna expect companies to act civilized when almost everyone's already conditioned to hand over their life every time they're asked?

robertlagrant 5y ago

> Capitalism killing innovation by making it another homogeneous device that doesn't respect you doesn't surprise me. What is this weird fascination with capitalism on HN? If a socialist government thought collecting data was a good idea and directed its resources that way, would that okay? My read is (rightly or wrongly) they want to have cloud services, and cloud services require identification.

JKCalhoun 5y ago
> What is this weird fascination with capitalism on HN? It's the one doing the data collecting in our lives.
- noduerme 5y ago
  Parent's point is that you'd be a lot less likely complain about even worse data collection if you lived in China, and it was done in the name of the "people" - but you wouldn't be quieter because you really believed it was for the people. You'd be quieter because you were scared to say things about the System. You're lucky to live in a System that pays you to have a public opinion about it.
  - brightstep 5y ago
    The alternatives being worse doesn't make a critique of a system less valid. Yes, it's good that we have free political speech and yes, it's true that capitalism's incentives drive decisions like invasive data collection.
    - noduerme 5y ago
      Breath of fresh air to read that in one perfect paragraph. I only set up straw men when I'm bored. So ok. It's interesting how capitalist and authoritarian motives converge when it comes to violating individuals' privacy. You're leaving me hanging. Under the current system in America I can use VPNs and all kinds of ways to hide my identity, even if it does get harder to buy a Roku. There's no such ability in China, let alone a right to pursue your ability to protect your identity. Identity and individuality are simply not a thing. Capitalism does, because is sells individualism (Chevy trucks, Coors Beer, the Green Bay Packers) - it does have to grudgingly allow individual people to, you know, act as individuals. From time to time. This is a difference that a lot of people gloss over, but it's the reason all those assholes voted for Trump, which just proves that it can be harnessed. But moreover, rank obstinacy isn't necessarily a bad thing when the alternative is totalitarianism.
    - robertlagrant 5y ago
      All incentives are the same in that regard - wanting to have and know more things. That's nothing to do with capitalism. Capitalism lives within that desire, as does socialism. Capitalism and socialism (excluding others for time) only differ on who gets to allocate resources. Do independent parties allocate their resources based on mutual agreements, within a legal framework run by a central authority? Or does a central authority allocate resources, within a legal framework run by that central authority?
AstralStorm 5y ago
No they don't. You could and should provide a baseline experience with no account. The account could be used for extra, like say sharing favorites across devices. Even storing payment details or favorites on the device is trivial. It's not done because it's not trackable and the user data sellable.
noduerme 5y ago
> My read is (rightly or wrongly) they want to have cloud services, and cloud services require identification. On this, no one ever bought a Roku because they expected it to upload something.
brightstep 5y ago
It's the global economic system, and it's incentives and structures drive decisions that individuals and companies make. Seems pretty relevant to this discussion, and most discussions since many if not most of our choices are economic ones.
tome 5y ago
> > Capitalism killing innovation by making it another homogeneous device that doesn't respect you doesn't surprise me. > What is this weird fascination with capitalism on HN? "Comments on the internet" make a lot more sense to me now that I've started reading "capitalism" as "unbridled pursuit of profit". It's a shame that the general internet population seems to think those concepts are one and the same but I'm not sure I have the energy to try to do anything about it.
- robertlagrant 5y ago
  Makes sense, but even then, not much. An unbridled pursuit of profit would mean quite a few business owners would be having their competitors killed and forcing people to work at gunpoint, with no repercussions.

kortilla 5y ago

> Roku is now publicly traded so its beholden to getting quarterly value for shareholder. Investors have deemed all of this data collecting valuable This is not at all now decision making works in publicly traded companies. The feedback loop is much tighter and private companies are just as susceptible to making these decisions.