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Actually, yes, it does feel like it could have a spiritual component. As a child I was a reluctant Christian. I’ve described myself as an atheist starting when

Actually, yes, it does feel like it could have a spiritual component. As a child I was a reluctant Christian. I’ve described myself as an atheist starting when I was 11 or so. Since experimenting with psychedelics, I now describe myself as an agnostic. I have a sense that there is some greater entity out there, but I have zero confidence that it resembles any human god. I attended a Christian church service a couple of weeks ago, for the first time in over a decade. It was an odd feeling. On one hand, I felt a bit like I was in a cult meeting and I was totally disillusioned. On the other hand, after talking with people there, many of them seemed to describe a “void” in their life which was filled by religion. I can feel a void like that in myself. Maybe this is the “poverty of spirit” you describe? Still, while I agree with many Christian teachings, I don’t think anybody could convert me into a believer. I feel the all-encompassing hopelessness; the nihilism. Nothing matters. There might be consequences of my death, but ultimately those consequences don’t matter. If I thought anything mattered, maybe I would think I matter. I am very curious to hear more about your experience. I have to admit I’m having trouble understanding your solution.

tomjakubowski 5y ago
Coming from a similar background as you (reluctant Catholic kid, now agnostic, seeking greater social connection), after attending a couple Quaker services over the years I've been strongly considering going regularly (alas, Covid). The service is very unlike other Christian rites. There is no priest, and anyone can speak. I remember long stretches of silence in contemplation, punctuated with a thoughtful couple sentences here and there from someone more spiritual than me. Importantly, it's also my understanding many Quaker meetings openly accept atheists and agnostics, among a diversity of beliefs. See https://nontheistfriends.org/ https://nontheistfriends.org/
sudosteph 5y ago
I was a very outspoken atheist myself for many years, an officer in my college's chapter of the secular student alliance back in the early 2010's. I was raised going to a mainline church sometimes, but it didn't do anything for me. I never had a grudge against Christianity or anything, but I grouped Jesus and God in with Santa at some point as a teenager and never really thought further about it. So I didn't think I could be converted either. I thought "Good without God" was how I could live, and things would eventually work out if I could just tune my environment or my brain chemistry accordingly. But I eventually found myself backed into a corner when I realized I had no way to reconcile meaning, joy, or goodness with myself or life as I could understand it. I wasn't good at all, if I was honest with myself. I felt exactly as you described, without value in a world that had no value. There's a lot to be said to tell the whole story, but to be anticlimactic, my solution was indeed Jesus. Considering his words, his claims, his promises, and daring to believe they applied to me, that's how I found hope, and a reason to live life as though I do have some value. How I got to that point from atheist, that required a long process of addressing a number of assumptions and biases before choosing to believe. The whole "church" part came after, and was more of the icing on the cake. BTW, if you're curious at all, here's what I was reading tonight that actually got me thinking on the topic of "poverty of spirit" and what it means to Christianity in particular (starts at section I.1 - https://www.ccel.org/ccel/wesley/sermons.v.xxi.html https://www.ccel.org/ccel/wesley/sermons.v.xxi.html ) I gotta go to bed, but if you wanna chat more or hear the whole story sometime let me know. I can email that address you posted in the other comment. Wishing you the best.
kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
What helped me with regard to that was reading the first three pages of "The myth of Sisyphus" by Albert Camus. I never even read the book further than that.

tomjakubowski 5y ago

Coming from a similar background as you (reluctant Catholic kid, now agnostic, seeking greater social connection), after attending a couple Quaker services over the years I've been strongly considering going regularly (alas, Covid). The service is very unlike other Christian rites. There is no priest, and anyone can speak. I remember long stretches of silence in contemplation, punctuated with a thoughtful couple sentences here and there from someone more spiritual than me. Importantly, it's also my understanding many Quaker meetings openly accept atheists and agnostics, among a diversity of beliefs. See https://nontheistfriends.org/ https://nontheistfriends.org/

sudosteph 5y ago

I was a very outspoken atheist myself for many years, an officer in my college's chapter of the secular student alliance back in the early 2010's. I was raised going to a mainline church sometimes, but it didn't do anything for me. I never had a grudge against Christianity or anything, but I grouped Jesus and God in with Santa at some point as a teenager and never really thought further about it. So I didn't think I could be converted either. I thought "Good without God" was how I could live, and things would eventually work out if I could just tune my environment or my brain chemistry accordingly. But I eventually found myself backed into a corner when I realized I had no way to reconcile meaning, joy, or goodness with myself or life as I could understand it. I wasn't good at all, if I was honest with myself. I felt exactly as you described, without value in a world that had no value. There's a lot to be said to tell the whole story, but to be anticlimactic, my solution was indeed Jesus. Considering his words, his claims, his promises, and daring to believe they applied to me, that's how I found hope, and a reason to live life as though I do have some value. How I got to that point from atheist, that required a long process of addressing a number of assumptions and biases before choosing to believe. The whole "church" part came after, and was more of the icing on the cake. BTW, if you're curious at all, here's what I was reading tonight that actually got me thinking on the topic of "poverty of spirit" and what it means to Christianity in particular (starts at section I.1 - https://www.ccel.org/ccel/wesley/sermons.v.xxi.html https://www.ccel.org/ccel/wesley/sermons.v.xxi.html ) I gotta go to bed, but if you wanna chat more or hear the whole story sometime let me know. I can email that address you posted in the other comment. Wishing you the best.

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago

What helped me with regard to that was reading the first three pages of "The myth of Sisyphus" by Albert Camus. I never even read the book further than that.