3 ms·

Just Say “No” To Mailing List Spam by Recruiters

15 points by dblock 15y ago

mootothemax 15y ago
Is there really any need for the naughty-secretary "She uses MongoDB" image at the top of this blog post?
- dblock 15y ago
  You're right, there's no need. But there was a reason why I put it there, point (2) on how people who know nothing about MongoDB shouldn't be posting to the lists.
  - hullo 15y ago
    I've been trying to parse this and just kind of failing. Is the implication that of course a naughty secretary wouldn't know anything about MongoDB?
    - dblock 15y ago
      I am used to people not connecting with Russian humor. She's actually well known porn star. UPDATE: I removed the pornographic infographic, I don't want to have a debate about it.
      - Jem 15y ago
        And porn stars aren't capable of using MongoDB? Not sure why you deleted my comment btw - slightly over-aggressive moderation there? Your prerogative I guess. ETA: appreciate you sending me an e-mail.
      - mootothemax 15y ago
        I am used to people no connecting with Russian humor. She's actually well known porn star. A bit of advice going forwards: this isn't a national-or-otherwise sense of humour issue. I have no doubt there are many people from many different countries that have a knowledge of famous porn stars. There'll also be lots who don't... and that's without getting in to the whole objectifying women debate ;-)
  - mootothemax 15y ago
    You're right, there's no need. But there was a reason why I put it there, point (2) on how people who know nothing about MongoDB shouldn't be posting to the lists. Honestly, I think it removes some of your post's effectiveness. Using a photo of a model with her blouse unbuttoned and writing SHE USES MONGODB over the top... I'm wondering if I'm missing something; are you being ironic and using using one inappropriate action to illustrate another? :)
    - dblock 15y ago
      OK, OK, porn removed, too many people are now focusing on the porn instead of the topic, thanks for the comments.
retube 15y ago
Urgh the whole recruiter-hate thing is so boring. Get off your high horse and realise that some people are just trying to make a living - posting a relevant ad to a mailing list occasionally is hardly the crime of the century. Re his 3 points: - A recruiter is never going to reveal the employer name as this risks them getting cut out of the loop - So what if a recruiter is trying to make money? Believe it or not line managers are trying to make money too. They wouldn't employ you if they weren't getting a postive ROI. - This _was_ a MongoDB ad, not Erlang or whatever. Provided a post like this is occasional and relevant, I really don't see the issue. It could really help someone land a great job too.
- zalew 15y ago
  The problem is not the existence of recruiters but spammy flavor of their posts and online profiles.
- Peroni 15y ago
  Get off your high horse and realise that some people are just trying to make a living The HN High Horse is pretty justified to be fair. Most recruiters haven't the first clue about the technology they recruit for and the amount of underhanded and often illegal tactics recruiters engage in warrants most of the hate they receive. Yes there are decent recruiters but they are a very rare breed and the decent ones generally know they are decent and consider themselves to be miles apart from the general stereotype and don't get offended by the hate. Shameless Plug: Have a look at my blog linked in my profile for more info on why recruiters are universally hated.
  - retube 15y ago
    I was making no reference, good or bad, to recruiters in general. I was referring to this particular example in isolation. To me that mailing list post seemed inoffensive and relevant. Assuming it's occasional, what's the problem? What the author is doing is worse. He's using this minor indiscretion (if it's even that) to jump on the recruiter-bashing band wagon and churn out a blog post and get himself a bit of traffic.
Peroni 15y ago
I was getting ready to launch into a tirade about how we aren't all that bad but I won't. Most of us are terrible and those that take advantage of a niche usergroup for the purpose of acting as a middleman are literally throwing shit at a wall and hoping some of it sticks. London Ruby User Group has the same issue with recruiters posting vague job descriptions but the issue is that despite this unwanted approach, they do get results. I have no idea how many people are on the MongoDB mailing list but if there are more than 100 people I would be willing to bet my extortionate fee's that they get at least five decent candidates emailing them asking for more information and ultimately ending up being represented by the agency.
ig1 15y ago
The three approaches I've seen mailing lists use to solve the job posting problem: 1) Have a specified criteria which jobs have to meet in order to be posted (i.e. by a regular mailing list member, direct from company, etc.) 2) Have a separate but affiliated mailing list for jobs 3) Charge for job postings (with the money typically going to the bar tab for the next mailing list meetup)
camworld 15y ago
I don't hate recruiters. There are a few really great ones and a whole lot of really bad ones. I don't fault them for trying to make a living, but I do recognize that the entire practice of placement fees is what drives these bad behaviors. The recruiting/placement industry would vanish overnight if companies would stop paying placement fees to any recruiter who manages to locate and then recruit good talent.
- Peroni 15y ago
  The recruiting/placement industry would vanish overnight if companies would stop paying placement fees to any recruiter who manages to locate and then recruit good talent. Correct. The problem is that this isn't likely to happen as so many companies need extra resource to help them recruit and will suffer the costs willingly.

15 points by dblock 15y ago

mootothemax 15y ago

Is there really any need for the naughty-secretary "She uses MongoDB" image at the top of this blog post?

dblock 15y ago
You're right, there's no need. But there was a reason why I put it there, point (2) on how people who know nothing about MongoDB shouldn't be posting to the lists.
- hullo 15y ago
  I've been trying to parse this and just kind of failing. Is the implication that of course a naughty secretary wouldn't know anything about MongoDB?
  - dblock 15y ago
    I am used to people not connecting with Russian humor. She's actually well known porn star. UPDATE: I removed the pornographic infographic, I don't want to have a debate about it.
    - Jem 15y ago
      And porn stars aren't capable of using MongoDB? Not sure why you deleted my comment btw - slightly over-aggressive moderation there? Your prerogative I guess. ETA: appreciate you sending me an e-mail.
    - mootothemax 15y ago
      I am used to people no connecting with Russian humor. She's actually well known porn star. A bit of advice going forwards: this isn't a national-or-otherwise sense of humour issue. I have no doubt there are many people from many different countries that have a knowledge of famous porn stars. There'll also be lots who don't... and that's without getting in to the whole objectifying women debate ;-)
- mootothemax 15y ago
  You're right, there's no need. But there was a reason why I put it there, point (2) on how people who know nothing about MongoDB shouldn't be posting to the lists. Honestly, I think it removes some of your post's effectiveness. Using a photo of a model with her blouse unbuttoned and writing SHE USES MONGODB over the top... I'm wondering if I'm missing something; are you being ironic and using using one inappropriate action to illustrate another? :)
  - dblock 15y ago
    OK, OK, porn removed, too many people are now focusing on the porn instead of the topic, thanks for the comments.

retube 15y ago

Urgh the whole recruiter-hate thing is so boring. Get off your high horse and realise that some people are just trying to make a living - posting a relevant ad to a mailing list occasionally is hardly the crime of the century. Re his 3 points: - A recruiter is never going to reveal the employer name as this risks them getting cut out of the loop - So what if a recruiter is trying to make money? Believe it or not line managers are trying to make money too. They wouldn't employ you if they weren't getting a postive ROI. - This _was_ a MongoDB ad, not Erlang or whatever. Provided a post like this is occasional and relevant, I really don't see the issue. It could really help someone land a great job too.

zalew 15y ago
The problem is not the existence of recruiters but spammy flavor of their posts and online profiles.
Peroni 15y ago
Get off your high horse and realise that some people are just trying to make a living The HN High Horse is pretty justified to be fair. Most recruiters haven't the first clue about the technology they recruit for and the amount of underhanded and often illegal tactics recruiters engage in warrants most of the hate they receive. Yes there are decent recruiters but they are a very rare breed and the decent ones generally know they are decent and consider themselves to be miles apart from the general stereotype and don't get offended by the hate. Shameless Plug: Have a look at my blog linked in my profile for more info on why recruiters are universally hated.
- retube 15y ago
  I was making no reference, good or bad, to recruiters in general. I was referring to this particular example in isolation. To me that mailing list post seemed inoffensive and relevant. Assuming it's occasional, what's the problem? What the author is doing is worse. He's using this minor indiscretion (if it's even that) to jump on the recruiter-bashing band wagon and churn out a blog post and get himself a bit of traffic.

Peroni 15y ago

I was getting ready to launch into a tirade about how we aren't all that bad but I won't. Most of us are terrible and those that take advantage of a niche usergroup for the purpose of acting as a middleman are literally throwing shit at a wall and hoping some of it sticks. London Ruby User Group has the same issue with recruiters posting vague job descriptions but the issue is that despite this unwanted approach, they do get results. I have no idea how many people are on the MongoDB mailing list but if there are more than 100 people I would be willing to bet my extortionate fee's that they get at least five decent candidates emailing them asking for more information and ultimately ending up being represented by the agency.

ig1 15y ago

The three approaches I've seen mailing lists use to solve the job posting problem: 1) Have a specified criteria which jobs have to meet in order to be posted (i.e. by a regular mailing list member, direct from company, etc.) 2) Have a separate but affiliated mailing list for jobs 3) Charge for job postings (with the money typically going to the bar tab for the next mailing list meetup)

camworld 15y ago

I don't hate recruiters. There are a few really great ones and a whole lot of really bad ones. I don't fault them for trying to make a living, but I do recognize that the entire practice of placement fees is what drives these bad behaviors. The recruiting/placement industry would vanish overnight if companies would stop paying placement fees to any recruiter who manages to locate and then recruit good talent.

Peroni 15y ago
The recruiting/placement industry would vanish overnight if companies would stop paying placement fees to any recruiter who manages to locate and then recruit good talent. Correct. The problem is that this isn't likely to happen as so many companies need extra resource to help them recruit and will suffer the costs willingly.