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You can understand I didn't want to spend thousands to start out a hobby I wasn't even sure I'd get into. If it lasts me a year that's good enough. My next step

You can understand I didn't want to spend thousands to start out a hobby I wasn't even sure I'd get into. If it lasts me a year that's good enough. My next step would be doing my own build. You're looking at this one, right? https://viribusbikes.com/products/emb-a277-rd?variant=40675488235674 https://viribusbikes.com/products/emb-a277-rd?variant=406754... I have no illusion that it's the best bike in the world, but it certainly works for my combination of roads and bike trails. I wouldn't put it on some crazy steep obstacle course or huge jumps but I wasn't looking to do any of that anyway. But what's the big deal about a triple front deraileur?

ethbr0 5y ago
Parent underappreciates that the difference between (nothing) and (anything) is infinite, and the difference between (less good) and (better) is finite.
- theelous3 5y ago
  No. I am appreciating that there are better somethings than this something, and I even explicitly recommended one. Take the time to actually read and understand before criticizing.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    In this instance (as with most of life, sometimes including time), money is the limited resource. Suggesting OP not buy anything or spend 3.5x as much isn't helpful.
    - theelous3 5y ago
      I suggested they buy a second hand kona hard tail for the same price or cheaper.
      - ethbr0 5y ago
        Second hand prices for Kona ebikes don't look nearly in the range of $700. Is there a specific model you're thinking of?
        TulliusCicero 5y ago
        They make it pretty clear that they’re sneering at the idea of the “e” part being a hard requirement.
        andreareina 5y ago
        Or maybe an emtb at that price point is simply unrealistic[1]. Which sucks because ebikes are such an accessibility boon. [1] requiring a reputable manufacturer, even accounting for second-hand bikes. Conversion might be an option, I don't know what those run.
        TulliusCicero 5y ago
        To me it just sounds like the PC gamers who insist that anyone who wants to 'game' needs an RTX 3070 at a minimum. They have unrealistic ideas of what the person actually wants to do. Someone who's spending a small amount on mountain bikes isn't going hard downhill.
        andreareina 5y ago
        I really don't think any analogies to PCs and games works. This is more like taking an underpowered car on the freeway. Yeah it's going to be able to get up to speed but without the acceleration that's really needed. And I don't know that I would have known better when I'd first gotten my license without being told. We don't know that someone wouldn't take this bike on well-maintained trails a few times and then decide to "graduate" to jumping over roots and rocks or w/e. Not to mention not knowing how well the electric part is done, especially the battery. I'd be ok taking my $200 commuter on some light trail because I'm mechanically inclined and I've got the measure of it. I have no idea about how to assess the electricals but given the cost-cutting, bad workmanship, and bad design I can see in the rest of the bike's build, I'd be really concerned about that. "Whether you are a professional athlete" lmao
theelous3 5y ago
I do understand. That's why I recommend the second hand hardtail kona for the same price (or cheaper). > If it lasts me a year that's good enough I don't like this attitude because it is wasteful. That's another thing I was taking issue with. Worse because it's an ebike. If it was just some aluminum it wouldn't be nearly as bad, but still kinda bad. > But what's the big deal about a triple front deraileur? More moving parts, super unreliable, always low quality. Modern mtbs use a 1x11 or 1x12 drivetrain (no front derailleur at all, never mind 3x).
- jimmaswell 5y ago
  I considered secondhand, but a used battery has a good chance of being bad or on the way out, and a good new battery is expensive. I doubt this bike is going to be ewaste soon though. I know a few people I might give it to who might use it. And I drive old cars into the ground instead of buying new so far, so I think I have a good track record on waste. Even if I wanted to just throw it out, the battery and frame are recyclable.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  > Modern mtbs use a 1x11 or 1x12 drivetrain (no front derailleur at all, never mind 3x). ... which creates much more chain wear from chain crossing ... > More moving parts, super unreliable, always low quality. I have a 35 year old Shimano Deore XT front derailleur. I raced the bike hard in the 80s during "the prehistory of UK mountain bike racing". I then rode it for another 8 years, doing several multi-thousand mile tours on it (before the name "gravel bike" had come along). Then I used it as a city commuter for another 5 years. The derailleur has never failed me, has always been reliable and is built better than most contemporary equivalents. The fad for 1x setups illuminates some of the pros, but because it's largely a fad, fails to shine a similar light on the cons. For crazy downhill racing, 1x is an obvious choice. For ultra-distance events, long distance off-road touring and general gravel duty, the choice is not quite so obvious.
  - grogenaut 5y ago
    I set my cyclocross up with a triple front and a touring rear. The cycle shop questioned me on why I did it. I explained that the last mile was also 600 foot climb. The super fit kid working there was like "that hill is easy, I do that on my speed gears". I said "yea but look at me". He said "true". then proceeded to say he couldn't install it because shimano wouldn't recommend it (too many tooth delta). But he'd adjust it if I put it on my self. So I did. Basically it's a road front with a MTB small, and a mtb cassette in the back. It's got 5k miles on it and works fine. Just needs little tweaks every once and a while and you can't do full crosses like Big Big. But it goes as fast and as torquey as you could please (or can buy). These things work pretty well. Just learn to tweak em or get them tuned up.
andreareina 5y ago
Front triple is a way to extend the range of gearing without spending much. It's also used to dishonestly claim "21 speeds" since a lot of those are in the overlap; the standard is to be explicit, e.g. 3x7. In other words it's a sign that the bike is built to a price, and maybe to a list of features and not actually to a quality standard. Not necessarily bad (I'd trust any 3x Shimano drivetrain assuming it's installed correctly) but it's a sign to watch out.

ethbr0 5y ago

Parent underappreciates that the difference between (nothing) and (anything) is infinite, and the difference between (less good) and (better) is finite.

theelous3 5y ago
No. I am appreciating that there are better somethings than this something, and I even explicitly recommended one. Take the time to actually read and understand before criticizing.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  In this instance (as with most of life, sometimes including time), money is the limited resource. Suggesting OP not buy anything or spend 3.5x as much isn't helpful.
  - theelous3 5y ago
    I suggested they buy a second hand kona hard tail for the same price or cheaper.
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      Second hand prices for Kona ebikes don't look nearly in the range of $700. Is there a specific model you're thinking of?
      - TulliusCicero 5y ago
        They make it pretty clear that they’re sneering at the idea of the “e” part being a hard requirement.
        andreareina 5y ago
        Or maybe an emtb at that price point is simply unrealistic[1]. Which sucks because ebikes are such an accessibility boon. [1] requiring a reputable manufacturer, even accounting for second-hand bikes. Conversion might be an option, I don't know what those run.
        TulliusCicero 5y ago
        To me it just sounds like the PC gamers who insist that anyone who wants to 'game' needs an RTX 3070 at a minimum. They have unrealistic ideas of what the person actually wants to do. Someone who's spending a small amount on mountain bikes isn't going hard downhill.
        andreareina 5y ago
        I really don't think any analogies to PCs and games works. This is more like taking an underpowered car on the freeway. Yeah it's going to be able to get up to speed but without the acceleration that's really needed. And I don't know that I would have known better when I'd first gotten my license without being told. We don't know that someone wouldn't take this bike on well-maintained trails a few times and then decide to "graduate" to jumping over roots and rocks or w/e. Not to mention not knowing how well the electric part is done, especially the battery. I'd be ok taking my $200 commuter on some light trail because I'm mechanically inclined and I've got the measure of it. I have no idea about how to assess the electricals but given the cost-cutting, bad workmanship, and bad design I can see in the rest of the bike's build, I'd be really concerned about that. "Whether you are a professional athlete" lmao

theelous3 5y ago

I do understand. That's why I recommend the second hand hardtail kona for the same price (or cheaper). > If it lasts me a year that's good enough I don't like this attitude because it is wasteful. That's another thing I was taking issue with. Worse because it's an ebike. If it was just some aluminum it wouldn't be nearly as bad, but still kinda bad. > But what's the big deal about a triple front deraileur? More moving parts, super unreliable, always low quality. Modern mtbs use a 1x11 or 1x12 drivetrain (no front derailleur at all, never mind 3x).

jimmaswell 5y ago
I considered secondhand, but a used battery has a good chance of being bad or on the way out, and a good new battery is expensive. I doubt this bike is going to be ewaste soon though. I know a few people I might give it to who might use it. And I drive old cars into the ground instead of buying new so far, so I think I have a good track record on waste. Even if I wanted to just throw it out, the battery and frame are recyclable.
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
> Modern mtbs use a 1x11 or 1x12 drivetrain (no front derailleur at all, never mind 3x). ... which creates much more chain wear from chain crossing ... > More moving parts, super unreliable, always low quality. I have a 35 year old Shimano Deore XT front derailleur. I raced the bike hard in the 80s during "the prehistory of UK mountain bike racing". I then rode it for another 8 years, doing several multi-thousand mile tours on it (before the name "gravel bike" had come along). Then I used it as a city commuter for another 5 years. The derailleur has never failed me, has always been reliable and is built better than most contemporary equivalents. The fad for 1x setups illuminates some of the pros, but because it's largely a fad, fails to shine a similar light on the cons. For crazy downhill racing, 1x is an obvious choice. For ultra-distance events, long distance off-road touring and general gravel duty, the choice is not quite so obvious.
- grogenaut 5y ago
  I set my cyclocross up with a triple front and a touring rear. The cycle shop questioned me on why I did it. I explained that the last mile was also 600 foot climb. The super fit kid working there was like "that hill is easy, I do that on my speed gears". I said "yea but look at me". He said "true". then proceeded to say he couldn't install it because shimano wouldn't recommend it (too many tooth delta). But he'd adjust it if I put it on my self. So I did. Basically it's a road front with a MTB small, and a mtb cassette in the back. It's got 5k miles on it and works fine. Just needs little tweaks every once and a while and you can't do full crosses like Big Big. But it goes as fast and as torquey as you could please (or can buy). These things work pretty well. Just learn to tweak em or get them tuned up.

andreareina 5y ago

Front triple is a way to extend the range of gearing without spending much. It's also used to dishonestly claim "21 speeds" since a lot of those are in the overlap; the standard is to be explicit, e.g. 3x7. In other words it's a sign that the bike is built to a price, and maybe to a list of features and not actually to a quality standard. Not necessarily bad (I'd trust any 3x Shimano drivetrain assuming it's installed correctly) but it's a sign to watch out.