4 ms·

There are a lot of popular things that are horrible.

by gameswithgo 5y ago

Thaxll 5y ago
We should thanks those to push software further. php, mysql, js they allow other project to improve.
- geodel 5y ago
  Oh yea, I love all that ad-tracking by websites which I do not even visit. They are definitely pushing further.
- jcelerier 5y ago
  It is absolutely impossible to know if in a parallel world where they hadn't existed, everything wouldn't be unambiguously better for everyone
bsder 5y ago
I'm tired of the slagging on Electron without providing something better. Cross-platform development is known to suck. Someone from the Linux world could have created a cross-platform GUI toolkit system that worked on Windows, Linux, OS X, Android, etc. and "didn't suck". People have tried. Linux folks bitched about them all. So GitHub created something. And it appears to suck least. Want to help fix the "problem"? Here's how you break the logjam: create a modern text layout/shaping/rendering toolkit based around vectors/paths that works natively on modern graphics cards (aka: use Vulkan). Text and vector rendering are the bottlenecks that cause everybody to use suboptimal solutions like "use the Chromium renderer" (Skia underneath) because it's such a bottomless swamp of complexity.
- geodel 5y ago
  > I'm tired of the slagging on Electron without providing something better. As a user I think it is fine for me to call out Electron crap when I see it as crap. Companies/Developers using electron claims that their product wouldn't even exist, were it not for electron. I do not have to praise them for saving world going to dark ages by making another sucky, half-assed Electron app. Because they are doing it for their benefit and not for my welfare.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  While Google thanks those developers that help to push ChromeOS agenda.
- jcelerier 5y ago
  ... but chrome is just using freetype and harfbuzz for font rendering, exactly like Qt. It's not a differentiating factor.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  > Cross-platform development is known to suck. I'm getting tired of people saying this when it just isn't very true. There are multiple GUI toolkits that are cross platform, WYSIWYG cross-platform GUI designers like Lazarus, Java, and just plain old writing GUI code for multiple targets. Christ people, we used to ship computer games on 5+ different platforms with wildly different graphics and sound hardware and different instruction sets in an era where you often didn't get the luxury of writing things in a compiled language if you wanted them to perform! Also, there's an argument to be made that most programs have no need to be cross platform in the first place. I'm not saying cross-platform is trivial, but it isn't some impossibly herculean task either.
  - bsder 5y ago
    > There are multiple GUI toolkits that are cross platform, WYSIWYG cross-platform GUI designers like Lazarus, Java, and just plain old writing GUI code for multiple targets. And they all kinda look and work like crap? Take a look at Kicad (no offense to the Kicad folks--it's just something cross-platform that I'm intimately familiar with and use every day), for example, and tell me anybody would hold it up as an exemplar of cross-platform GUI development. Tk is cross-platform and cross-language, and all everybody does is complain about how it looks like crap. Blender thought GUI toolkits were so useless that they grew their own. No Digital Audio Workstation uses any mainstream GUI toolkit. I can go on and on and on. As for computer games, they are a completely different beast. Computer games take over the whole screen, proscribe your input interface, and generally limit your ability to interact with text or graphical elements. GUI is a whole lot easier if you don't have to deal with text.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      That is a consequence of not having proper UI/UX people on the team.
      - bsder 5y ago
        And? What's the best way to get proper UI/UX people? Write in some obscure language and GUI toolkit and pray that 1 of the 5 in the world will join your project? Or change the language/toolkit to the one where the greatest concentration of UI/UX people already exist? Programming, especially open source, is a social as well as a technical problem.

There are a lot of popular things that are horrible.

Thaxll 5y ago

We should thanks those to push software further. php, mysql, js they allow other project to improve.

geodel 5y ago
Oh yea, I love all that ad-tracking by websites which I do not even visit. They are definitely pushing further.
jcelerier 5y ago
It is absolutely impossible to know if in a parallel world where they hadn't existed, everything wouldn't be unambiguously better for everyone

bsder 5y ago

I'm tired of the slagging on Electron without providing something better. Cross-platform development is known to suck. Someone from the Linux world could have created a cross-platform GUI toolkit system that worked on Windows, Linux, OS X, Android, etc. and "didn't suck". People have tried. Linux folks bitched about them all. So GitHub created something. And it appears to suck least. Want to help fix the "problem"? Here's how you break the logjam: create a modern text layout/shaping/rendering toolkit based around vectors/paths that works natively on modern graphics cards (aka: use Vulkan). Text and vector rendering are the bottlenecks that cause everybody to use suboptimal solutions like "use the Chromium renderer" (Skia underneath) because it's such a bottomless swamp of complexity.

geodel 5y ago
> I'm tired of the slagging on Electron without providing something better. As a user I think it is fine for me to call out Electron crap when I see it as crap. Companies/Developers using electron claims that their product wouldn't even exist, were it not for electron. I do not have to praise them for saving world going to dark ages by making another sucky, half-assed Electron app. Because they are doing it for their benefit and not for my welfare.
pjmlp 5y ago
While Google thanks those developers that help to push ChromeOS agenda.
jcelerier 5y ago
... but chrome is just using freetype and harfbuzz for font rendering, exactly like Qt. It's not a differentiating factor.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
> Cross-platform development is known to suck. I'm getting tired of people saying this when it just isn't very true. There are multiple GUI toolkits that are cross platform, WYSIWYG cross-platform GUI designers like Lazarus, Java, and just plain old writing GUI code for multiple targets. Christ people, we used to ship computer games on 5+ different platforms with wildly different graphics and sound hardware and different instruction sets in an era where you often didn't get the luxury of writing things in a compiled language if you wanted them to perform! Also, there's an argument to be made that most programs have no need to be cross platform in the first place. I'm not saying cross-platform is trivial, but it isn't some impossibly herculean task either.
- bsder 5y ago
  > There are multiple GUI toolkits that are cross platform, WYSIWYG cross-platform GUI designers like Lazarus, Java, and just plain old writing GUI code for multiple targets. And they all kinda look and work like crap? Take a look at Kicad (no offense to the Kicad folks--it's just something cross-platform that I'm intimately familiar with and use every day), for example, and tell me anybody would hold it up as an exemplar of cross-platform GUI development. Tk is cross-platform and cross-language, and all everybody does is complain about how it looks like crap. Blender thought GUI toolkits were so useless that they grew their own. No Digital Audio Workstation uses any mainstream GUI toolkit. I can go on and on and on. As for computer games, they are a completely different beast. Computer games take over the whole screen, proscribe your input interface, and generally limit your ability to interact with text or graphical elements. GUI is a whole lot easier if you don't have to deal with text.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    That is a consequence of not having proper UI/UX people on the team.
    - bsder 5y ago
      And? What's the best way to get proper UI/UX people? Write in some obscure language and GUI toolkit and pray that 1 of the 5 in the world will join your project? Or change the language/toolkit to the one where the greatest concentration of UI/UX people already exist? Programming, especially open source, is a social as well as a technical problem.