4 ms·

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. It's not the "white right" occupying blocks in Portland. Not that I agree with either side. I think it's a lose

by evv555 5y ago

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. It's not the "white right" occupying blocks in Portland. Not that I agree with either side. I think it's a lose/lose situation for everyone if we keep feeding this polarization.

jrochkind1 5y ago
I am responding to the survey data that is the OP. > The new poll found that 40% of Republicans and 41% of independents said violence can be acceptable, compared with 23% of Democrats. Forty percent of white Americans said violence can be justified, compared with 18% of Black Americans. > Flashback: The percentage of adults who said violence is justified was 23% in 2015 and 16% in 2010 in polls by CBS News and the New York Times respectively, according to the Post. That doesn't mean no "Democrats" think so, just relative. But I'm responding to this survey data. Which still could not mean what I said even if valid data, sure. For instance, since it was about "Democrats" vs "Republicans" not "left" and "right", maybe it says nothing about left vs right but just that those who are inclined toward political violence on the right identify with the Republican party but those on the left who do don't identify with the Democratic party. For instance, even if it's true those occupying blocks in Portland would have thought they were engaging in political violence, I'm not sure how of them considered themselves "Democrats". I am interpreting this survey within my overall worldview, it's true. But it's those numbers from the survey I was responding to, per your question.
- evv555 5y ago
  It just seems like a poorly designed survey. Maybe even intentionally. >For instance, even if it's true those occupying blocks in Portland would have thought they were engaging in political violence, I'm not sure how of them considered themselves "Democrats". It's a matter of framing. Many "Democrats" saw leftist riots as protests not violence.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
Highly inflammatory. I was a in a crowd of protesters that had guns pointed at us by a group of white right PB/3%/OK last summer in Portland that were occupying a block. I realize you are probably talking about the protests to end police violence and call for accountability, but I think you're mixing up who's protesting what. PB's come to town and occupy blocks regularly, they aren't fighting for social justice, the are simply fighting against social justice. > Not that I agree with either side. Do you know what the sides are? Because it's rather shocking that you would say that, esp. about Portland.
- evv555 5y ago
  >Do you know what the sides are? Because it's rather shocking that you would say that, esp. about Portland. I'm from a communist state where my family was oppressed for being part of a "colonizer/capitalist" ethnicity. I know first hand that many leftists have adopted these narratives and view me in a hateful and dehumanizing manner. I'm well aware of leftist/postmodern narratives. The question is how many of you are and do you care? >PB's come to town and occupy blocks regularly, they aren't fighting for social justice, the are simply fighting against social justice. I realize there are multiple sides which I've implied in the original post. I don't think it's accurate to say they are "fighting against social justice". They have their own sense of social justice even if misguided. At the end of the day both sides have a common root cause for their grievances. Millennials and Gen Z have been screwed by the previous generations and are operating in a regressive state as a result. Something like communists vs fascists in pre-war Germany but not exactly. Point is neither side is the root cause of the others issues.
  - SavantIdiot 5y ago
    [flagged]
    - evv555 5y ago
      [flagged]
- noduerme 5y ago
  From my perspective as a Portlander, the PNWYLF and the Proud Boys might as well be on the same side. They're all hooligans looking for a fight. The fact that one side claims to be the good guys doesn't really excuse their behavior, and if the violent treatment of the neighbors during the black bloc occupation of the Red House was any indication, they'd not be any more fun to live under than the fascists. Vigilantes are vigilantes. Right wingers are attracted to vigilantism emotionally, but it's almost worse to hear it excused in intellectual and sociological terms by the educated left. 2020 left me with the unshakeable feeling that political activism of all kinds in Portland has been displaced by LARPing.

by evv555 5y ago

jrochkind1 5y ago

I am responding to the survey data that is the OP. > The new poll found that 40% of Republicans and 41% of independents said violence can be acceptable, compared with 23% of Democrats. Forty percent of white Americans said violence can be justified, compared with 18% of Black Americans. > Flashback: The percentage of adults who said violence is justified was 23% in 2015 and 16% in 2010 in polls by CBS News and the New York Times respectively, according to the Post. That doesn't mean no "Democrats" think so, just relative. But I'm responding to this survey data. Which still could not mean what I said even if valid data, sure. For instance, since it was about "Democrats" vs "Republicans" not "left" and "right", maybe it says nothing about left vs right but just that those who are inclined toward political violence on the right identify with the Republican party but those on the left who do don't identify with the Democratic party. For instance, even if it's true those occupying blocks in Portland would have thought they were engaging in political violence, I'm not sure how of them considered themselves "Democrats". I am interpreting this survey within my overall worldview, it's true. But it's those numbers from the survey I was responding to, per your question.

evv555 5y ago
It just seems like a poorly designed survey. Maybe even intentionally. >For instance, even if it's true those occupying blocks in Portland would have thought they were engaging in political violence, I'm not sure how of them considered themselves "Democrats". It's a matter of framing. Many "Democrats" saw leftist riots as protests not violence.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

Highly inflammatory. I was a in a crowd of protesters that had guns pointed at us by a group of white right PB/3%/OK last summer in Portland that were occupying a block. I realize you are probably talking about the protests to end police violence and call for accountability, but I think you're mixing up who's protesting what. PB's come to town and occupy blocks regularly, they aren't fighting for social justice, the are simply fighting against social justice. > Not that I agree with either side. Do you know what the sides are? Because it's rather shocking that you would say that, esp. about Portland.

evv555 5y ago
>Do you know what the sides are? Because it's rather shocking that you would say that, esp. about Portland. I'm from a communist state where my family was oppressed for being part of a "colonizer/capitalist" ethnicity. I know first hand that many leftists have adopted these narratives and view me in a hateful and dehumanizing manner. I'm well aware of leftist/postmodern narratives. The question is how many of you are and do you care? >PB's come to town and occupy blocks regularly, they aren't fighting for social justice, the are simply fighting against social justice. I realize there are multiple sides which I've implied in the original post. I don't think it's accurate to say they are "fighting against social justice". They have their own sense of social justice even if misguided. At the end of the day both sides have a common root cause for their grievances. Millennials and Gen Z have been screwed by the previous generations and are operating in a regressive state as a result. Something like communists vs fascists in pre-war Germany but not exactly. Point is neither side is the root cause of the others issues.
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - evv555 5y ago
    [flagged]
noduerme 5y ago
From my perspective as a Portlander, the PNWYLF and the Proud Boys might as well be on the same side. They're all hooligans looking for a fight. The fact that one side claims to be the good guys doesn't really excuse their behavior, and if the violent treatment of the neighbors during the black bloc occupation of the Red House was any indication, they'd not be any more fun to live under than the fascists. Vigilantes are vigilantes. Right wingers are attracted to vigilantism emotionally, but it's almost worse to hear it excused in intellectual and sociological terms by the educated left. 2020 left me with the unshakeable feeling that political activism of all kinds in Portland has been displaced by LARPing.