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> Yup, this is hopelessly confounded now. Soda and juice are "bad", 20 years ago juice was good. In the US (linked study was done in China), I saw older friend

> Yup, this is hopelessly confounded now. Soda and juice are "bad", 20 years ago juice was good. In the US (linked study was done in China), I saw older friends having kids bringing home pamphlets from the doctor's office extolling the virtues of 100% fruit juice. Juice being bad is a very recent thing, and it is not entirely out of the realm of possibility that some parents didn't Get The Memo, but they are otherwise still "good parents". Or they may just have given up the fight over juice. Pick your battles and all that, and without any research showing juice was really "that" bad, parents may have figured it wasn't a battle worth fighting over.

wffurr 5y ago
Or those juice pamphlets were planted by Big Juice in a psyops move to increase juice sales and juice being “good for you” is a semi-recent invention, only recently overturned in favor of “juice is not good for you”.
- com2kid 5y ago
  > Or those juice pamphlets were planted by Big Juice in a psyops move to increase juice sales It wasn't psyops, it was just marketing. The problem is, without evidence to the contrary, doctors are as want to go along with "common sense" as everyone else. Thus, when "common knowledge" because "fruit juice is good for you" doctors just nodded their head and agreed with the advice, until evidence to the contrary come out.
  - wffurr 5y ago
    >> It wasn't psyops, it was just marketing What do you think marketing is?
    - ineedasername 5y ago
      Well, psyops is the term used for military level operations. Propaganda is for the non-military portion of governments, politics, NGO's. Marketing is for private, mostly commercial, entities. Of course they have significant overlap in techniques & tactics, and all come in the same flavors: White/Grey/Black, categorizations that pertain mainly to whether or not the source is known, though also the types of tactics that might be used. --White have a fairly clear attributable source & intent. --Grey are more ambiguous. Usually you get someone else to say what you want them to say. Maybe they don't even know you're doing it, maybe they're a paid shill. --Black are completely secretive
ineedasername 5y ago
... 100% fruit juice.. Juice being bad is a very recent thing I haven't really seen that, or at least not a clear cut "it's bad". (I'm sure there's someWhen updated school food guidelines from the Feds came down, traditional SSB's were cut out but juice w/o any additives were still included as acceptable healthy drinks. I have seen information that it shouldn't be the only thing you drink, but also that the natural sugars in them are much better than, say HFCS. Most of what I can find on the topic simply advocates moderation, though there are some exceptions.
- com2kid 5y ago
  100% fruit juice is now recognized as being not healthy. It is a "treat" just like cookies or pop. Most sources will advocate "moderation" because you can't tell Americans not to eat trash without Americans getting upset. "OK in moderation" means "it is unhealthy but if we tell you to stop you won't so...." Same as alcohol being OK in moderation. It isn't. It is 100% bad for you. (Those studies in wine are all statistically trickery). Ditto for cookies. There is no healthy amount of cookies to eat. Do oatmeal cookies technically have some nutritional value? Sure. But that is like dropping a multi-vitamin into a shot of jack daniels. Good for you only in the sense that of hitting yourself on the head and then going for a massage. Or to put it yet another way, there is exactly 0 instances where fruit juice is superior to eating a piece of fruit. Is orange juice better than something getting scurvy? Sure. That's about the limit of its health benefit though.

wffurr 5y ago

Or those juice pamphlets were planted by Big Juice in a psyops move to increase juice sales and juice being “good for you” is a semi-recent invention, only recently overturned in favor of “juice is not good for you”.

com2kid 5y ago
> Or those juice pamphlets were planted by Big Juice in a psyops move to increase juice sales It wasn't psyops, it was just marketing. The problem is, without evidence to the contrary, doctors are as want to go along with "common sense" as everyone else. Thus, when "common knowledge" because "fruit juice is good for you" doctors just nodded their head and agreed with the advice, until evidence to the contrary come out.
- wffurr 5y ago
  >> It wasn't psyops, it was just marketing What do you think marketing is?
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    Well, psyops is the term used for military level operations. Propaganda is for the non-military portion of governments, politics, NGO's. Marketing is for private, mostly commercial, entities. Of course they have significant overlap in techniques & tactics, and all come in the same flavors: White/Grey/Black, categorizations that pertain mainly to whether or not the source is known, though also the types of tactics that might be used. --White have a fairly clear attributable source & intent. --Grey are more ambiguous. Usually you get someone else to say what you want them to say. Maybe they don't even know you're doing it, maybe they're a paid shill. --Black are completely secretive

ineedasername 5y ago

... 100% fruit juice.. Juice being bad is a very recent thing I haven't really seen that, or at least not a clear cut "it's bad". (I'm sure there's someWhen updated school food guidelines from the Feds came down, traditional SSB's were cut out but juice w/o any additives were still included as acceptable healthy drinks. I have seen information that it shouldn't be the only thing you drink, but also that the natural sugars in them are much better than, say HFCS. Most of what I can find on the topic simply advocates moderation, though there are some exceptions.

com2kid 5y ago
100% fruit juice is now recognized as being not healthy. It is a "treat" just like cookies or pop. Most sources will advocate "moderation" because you can't tell Americans not to eat trash without Americans getting upset. "OK in moderation" means "it is unhealthy but if we tell you to stop you won't so...." Same as alcohol being OK in moderation. It isn't. It is 100% bad for you. (Those studies in wine are all statistically trickery). Ditto for cookies. There is no healthy amount of cookies to eat. Do oatmeal cookies technically have some nutritional value? Sure. But that is like dropping a multi-vitamin into a shot of jack daniels. Good for you only in the sense that of hitting yourself on the head and then going for a massage. Or to put it yet another way, there is exactly 0 instances where fruit juice is superior to eating a piece of fruit. Is orange juice better than something getting scurvy? Sure. That's about the limit of its health benefit though.