4 ms·

Among other things, this says the belief that "violence against the government can at times be justified" is far more prevalent on the white right than among ot

Among other things, this says the belief that "violence against the government can at times be justified" is far more prevalent on the white right than among other people. It definitely was not always this way in the USA, this is very different than what you would have found even 20 years ago. In addition to seeming possibly threatening for those of us not on the white right, I think it demonstrates that people "mad as hell who aren't going to take it anymore" are largely finding a home on the right and not the left. Again, it wasn't always this way. Somehow what anti-systemic left may exist is no longer visible or accessible.

throwawayboise 5y ago
Because the left is now mainstream, and the right is counter-culture. The opposite of the 1950s and '60s.
evv555 5y ago
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. It's not the "white right" occupying blocks in Portland. Not that I agree with either side. I think it's a lose/lose situation for everyone if we keep feeding this polarization.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  I am responding to the survey data that is the OP. > The new poll found that 40% of Republicans and 41% of independents said violence can be acceptable, compared with 23% of Democrats. Forty percent of white Americans said violence can be justified, compared with 18% of Black Americans. > Flashback: The percentage of adults who said violence is justified was 23% in 2015 and 16% in 2010 in polls by CBS News and the New York Times respectively, according to the Post. That doesn't mean no "Democrats" think so, just relative. But I'm responding to this survey data. Which still could not mean what I said even if valid data, sure. For instance, since it was about "Democrats" vs "Republicans" not "left" and "right", maybe it says nothing about left vs right but just that those who are inclined toward political violence on the right identify with the Republican party but those on the left who do don't identify with the Democratic party. For instance, even if it's true those occupying blocks in Portland would have thought they were engaging in political violence, I'm not sure how of them considered themselves "Democrats". I am interpreting this survey within my overall worldview, it's true. But it's those numbers from the survey I was responding to, per your question.
  - evv555 5y ago
    It just seems like a poorly designed survey. Maybe even intentionally. >For instance, even if it's true those occupying blocks in Portland would have thought they were engaging in political violence, I'm not sure how of them considered themselves "Democrats". It's a matter of framing. Many "Democrats" saw leftist riots as protests not violence.
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  Highly inflammatory. I was a in a crowd of protesters that had guns pointed at us by a group of white right PB/3%/OK last summer in Portland that were occupying a block. I realize you are probably talking about the protests to end police violence and call for accountability, but I think you're mixing up who's protesting what. PB's come to town and occupy blocks regularly, they aren't fighting for social justice, the are simply fighting against social justice. > Not that I agree with either side. Do you know what the sides are? Because it's rather shocking that you would say that, esp. about Portland.
  - evv555 5y ago
    >Do you know what the sides are? Because it's rather shocking that you would say that, esp. about Portland. I'm from a communist state where my family was oppressed for being part of a "colonizer/capitalist" ethnicity. I know first hand that many leftists have adopted these narratives and view me in a hateful and dehumanizing manner. I'm well aware of leftist/postmodern narratives. The question is how many of you are and do you care? >PB's come to town and occupy blocks regularly, they aren't fighting for social justice, the are simply fighting against social justice. I realize there are multiple sides which I've implied in the original post. I don't think it's accurate to say they are "fighting against social justice". They have their own sense of social justice even if misguided. At the end of the day both sides have a common root cause for their grievances. Millennials and Gen Z have been screwed by the previous generations and are operating in a regressive state as a result. Something like communists vs fascists in pre-war Germany but not exactly. Point is neither side is the root cause of the others issues.
    - SavantIdiot 5y ago
      [flagged]
      - evv555 5y ago
        [flagged]
  - noduerme 5y ago
noduerme 5y ago
The anti-systemic left was out looting all summer in 2020 and justifying violence and property crime as the "voice of the voiceless". They aren't violently anti-government right this moment. The violent white right, otoh, had always existed and always been the same set of paranoid authoritarian lunatics. The fact that they've made inroads into the middle classes is a bad sign, and one which usually precedes military fascist coups in less long-standing democracies. But their ability to radicalize and foment anti-government violence is now used by the left to justify violence and vice versa. Things will not improve until Twitter bans EVERYBODY.
- trembonator 5y ago
rayiner 5y ago
The majority of white people are on the “right,” so I’m not sure the distinction means what you think it does. Virtually all non-whites in America fall into two groups: ADOS, who since the Civil Rights era have relied on the government to protect them from the rest of the population, and immigrants, who almost always come from countries where people have a much more positive view of government than Americans traditionally do. The anti-government sentiment among Democrats, which was pretty healthy during Bill Clinton, or say Howard Dean, seems to have almost collapsed post Obama. I would chalk that up to the party becoming more reliant on immigrants to win elections.

throwawayboise 5y ago

Because the left is now mainstream, and the right is counter-culture. The opposite of the 1950s and '60s.

evv555 5y ago

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. It's not the "white right" occupying blocks in Portland. Not that I agree with either side. I think it's a lose/lose situation for everyone if we keep feeding this polarization.

jrochkind1 5y ago
I am responding to the survey data that is the OP. > The new poll found that 40% of Republicans and 41% of independents said violence can be acceptable, compared with 23% of Democrats. Forty percent of white Americans said violence can be justified, compared with 18% of Black Americans. > Flashback: The percentage of adults who said violence is justified was 23% in 2015 and 16% in 2010 in polls by CBS News and the New York Times respectively, according to the Post. That doesn't mean no "Democrats" think so, just relative. But I'm responding to this survey data. Which still could not mean what I said even if valid data, sure. For instance, since it was about "Democrats" vs "Republicans" not "left" and "right", maybe it says nothing about left vs right but just that those who are inclined toward political violence on the right identify with the Republican party but those on the left who do don't identify with the Democratic party. For instance, even if it's true those occupying blocks in Portland would have thought they were engaging in political violence, I'm not sure how of them considered themselves "Democrats". I am interpreting this survey within my overall worldview, it's true. But it's those numbers from the survey I was responding to, per your question.
- evv555 5y ago
  It just seems like a poorly designed survey. Maybe even intentionally. >For instance, even if it's true those occupying blocks in Portland would have thought they were engaging in political violence, I'm not sure how of them considered themselves "Democrats". It's a matter of framing. Many "Democrats" saw leftist riots as protests not violence.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
Highly inflammatory. I was a in a crowd of protesters that had guns pointed at us by a group of white right PB/3%/OK last summer in Portland that were occupying a block. I realize you are probably talking about the protests to end police violence and call for accountability, but I think you're mixing up who's protesting what. PB's come to town and occupy blocks regularly, they aren't fighting for social justice, the are simply fighting against social justice. > Not that I agree with either side. Do you know what the sides are? Because it's rather shocking that you would say that, esp. about Portland.
- evv555 5y ago
  >Do you know what the sides are? Because it's rather shocking that you would say that, esp. about Portland. I'm from a communist state where my family was oppressed for being part of a "colonizer/capitalist" ethnicity. I know first hand that many leftists have adopted these narratives and view me in a hateful and dehumanizing manner. I'm well aware of leftist/postmodern narratives. The question is how many of you are and do you care? >PB's come to town and occupy blocks regularly, they aren't fighting for social justice, the are simply fighting against social justice. I realize there are multiple sides which I've implied in the original post. I don't think it's accurate to say they are "fighting against social justice". They have their own sense of social justice even if misguided. At the end of the day both sides have a common root cause for their grievances. Millennials and Gen Z have been screwed by the previous generations and are operating in a regressive state as a result. Something like communists vs fascists in pre-war Germany but not exactly. Point is neither side is the root cause of the others issues.
  - SavantIdiot 5y ago
    [flagged]
    - evv555 5y ago
      [flagged]
- noduerme 5y ago

noduerme 5y ago

The anti-systemic left was out looting all summer in 2020 and justifying violence and property crime as the "voice of the voiceless". They aren't violently anti-government right this moment. The violent white right, otoh, had always existed and always been the same set of paranoid authoritarian lunatics. The fact that they've made inroads into the middle classes is a bad sign, and one which usually precedes military fascist coups in less long-standing democracies. But their ability to radicalize and foment anti-government violence is now used by the left to justify violence and vice versa. Things will not improve until Twitter bans EVERYBODY.

trembonator 5y ago

rayiner 5y ago

The majority of white people are on the “right,” so I’m not sure the distinction means what you think it does. Virtually all non-whites in America fall into two groups: ADOS, who since the Civil Rights era have relied on the government to protect them from the rest of the population, and immigrants, who almost always come from countries where people have a much more positive view of government than Americans traditionally do. The anti-government sentiment among Democrats, which was pretty healthy during Bill Clinton, or say Howard Dean, seems to have almost collapsed post Obama. I would chalk that up to the party becoming more reliant on immigrants to win elections.