4 ms·

So what? People do things you might disagree about. It's called freedom, or live and let live. If you disagree with this use of electricity, ask yourself why.

by csdvrx 5y ago

So what? People do things you might disagree about. It's called freedom, or live and let live. If you disagree with this use of electricity, ask yourself why. The reason most often cited is externality, like pollution or CO2. The solution is not banning, as they are many equally "wasteful" use of electricity, like gaming, and 1kW used for gaming will produce just as much pollution as 1kW used for mining. So why differentiate between these uses? Who's to say gaming is better that mining? (even if I prefer the former, why I should impose my preferences on others?) You can't legislate what people do on their own free time with things that they buy, like electricity. If you are really worried about the environment, the only real solution is taxes applied to the price of electricity, because Aluminum smoldering is just as polluting.

speedgoose 5y ago
Sorry but no, you don't have the freedom to kill people. You must not have the freedom to blatantly destroy the planet for your own little profits.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  How does this relate (even remotely) to my comment? Killing is illegal. Buying electricity is legal. Aluminum smoldering and gaming and heating and everything else are equally polluting per kW used. And FYI I haven't mined for a long time. And if I ever do it again, it would be to preserve my GPU, as the heatshocks between gaming and not gaming might reduce its lifespan, which would cause me to replace it and thus pollute more due to the amount of raw materials used when making electronics products.
newaccount2021 5y ago
Traster 5y ago
>People do things you might disagree about. It's called freedom, or live and let live. You have the freedom to do a lot of things. You can go and play in traffic if you really want. Everyone else has the freedom to call you an idiot and shout at you for how stupid and inconsiderate you're being. Let's assume your comparison holds, and 1kw gaming== 1kw mining, atleast the gamer was happy for the hours of gaming he played, rather than the miner who basically just pushed more money into the slots machine. >You can't legislate what people do on their own free time with things that they buy, like electricity. You actually can. We actually do. Authoritarian regimes do it at the drop of a hat, but even free democracies ban activities they view as purely destructive. It's important to remember, people need energy to heat their homes and not die, and we're not going to pretend that's an equally useful application of energy as bitcoin mining.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > You have the freedom to do a lot of things. You can go and play in traffic if you really want. Everyone else has the freedom to call you an idiot and shout at you for how stupid and inconsiderate you're being. You can't go and play in traffic - that's jaywalking and it's illegal > We actually do. Authoritarian regimes do it at the drop of a hat, but even free democracies ban activities they view as purely destructive. When you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. But using the banhammer for things you don't like is never good is the long run, because it creates an incentive for other people to use it against think you like but they don't. > It's important to remember, people need energy to heat their homes and not die, and we're not going to pretend that's an equally useful application of energy as bitcoin mining And people need food, which is why we have food banks. In the end, heat is just heat. Unless you also legislate you can't heat your home above 80, let's not pretend heating is not wasteful. Then the next thing will be legislating you need good insulation, then you forbid to use oil like recently in Quebec or gas like recently in New York. The only people really hurted by this are people who have different preferences (I like heat, so I'd like my house to be 80) and people who're poor (they can't buy electricity, but they can buy an oil furnace to warn their bedroom). This is bad, but a lot of people fail to realize this, and commit the fallacy of composition by projecting their set of preferences or characteristics (ex: having the money to buy electricity, or living in a country where they can trust the central bank)
  - Traster 5y ago
    You know that building standards are a thing right? It is literally illegal to build a home with bad insulation for exactly that reason. You're right the only people who are hurt by this are people who have different preferences or are poor. You are pricing poor people out of being able to heat their homes. Tha'ts not a defence ofyour position. If your arugment is "this is bad" you're not defending your position, you're admitting your position is wrong, whilst doing it anyway.

by csdvrx 5y ago

speedgoose 5y ago

Sorry but no, you don't have the freedom to kill people. You must not have the freedom to blatantly destroy the planet for your own little profits.

csdvrx 5y ago
How does this relate (even remotely) to my comment? Killing is illegal. Buying electricity is legal. Aluminum smoldering and gaming and heating and everything else are equally polluting per kW used. And FYI I haven't mined for a long time. And if I ever do it again, it would be to preserve my GPU, as the heatshocks between gaming and not gaming might reduce its lifespan, which would cause me to replace it and thus pollute more due to the amount of raw materials used when making electronics products.

newaccount2021 5y ago

Traster 5y ago

>People do things you might disagree about. It's called freedom, or live and let live. You have the freedom to do a lot of things. You can go and play in traffic if you really want. Everyone else has the freedom to call you an idiot and shout at you for how stupid and inconsiderate you're being. Let's assume your comparison holds, and 1kw gaming== 1kw mining, atleast the gamer was happy for the hours of gaming he played, rather than the miner who basically just pushed more money into the slots machine. >You can't legislate what people do on their own free time with things that they buy, like electricity. You actually can. We actually do. Authoritarian regimes do it at the drop of a hat, but even free democracies ban activities they view as purely destructive. It's important to remember, people need energy to heat their homes and not die, and we're not going to pretend that's an equally useful application of energy as bitcoin mining.

csdvrx 5y ago
> You have the freedom to do a lot of things. You can go and play in traffic if you really want. Everyone else has the freedom to call you an idiot and shout at you for how stupid and inconsiderate you're being. You can't go and play in traffic - that's jaywalking and it's illegal > We actually do. Authoritarian regimes do it at the drop of a hat, but even free democracies ban activities they view as purely destructive. When you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. But using the banhammer for things you don't like is never good is the long run, because it creates an incentive for other people to use it against think you like but they don't. > It's important to remember, people need energy to heat their homes and not die, and we're not going to pretend that's an equally useful application of energy as bitcoin mining And people need food, which is why we have food banks. In the end, heat is just heat. Unless you also legislate you can't heat your home above 80, let's not pretend heating is not wasteful. Then the next thing will be legislating you need good insulation, then you forbid to use oil like recently in Quebec or gas like recently in New York. The only people really hurted by this are people who have different preferences (I like heat, so I'd like my house to be 80) and people who're poor (they can't buy electricity, but they can buy an oil furnace to warn their bedroom). This is bad, but a lot of people fail to realize this, and commit the fallacy of composition by projecting their set of preferences or characteristics (ex: having the money to buy electricity, or living in a country where they can trust the central bank)
- Traster 5y ago
  You know that building standards are a thing right? It is literally illegal to build a home with bad insulation for exactly that reason. You're right the only people who are hurt by this are people who have different preferences or are poor. You are pricing poor people out of being able to heat their homes. Tha'ts not a defence ofyour position. If your arugment is "this is bad" you're not defending your position, you're admitting your position is wrong, whilst doing it anyway.