3 ms·

Why is this not simply illegal?

by prinzmaus 5y ago

xutopia 5y ago
I heat my basement with a mining rig. Why should that be illegal?
- zeusk 5y ago
  The same reason for why you shouldn't be heating your basement with coal.
- spankalee 5y ago
  And you turn it off when you don't actually need the heat, right? Right?
crashpro 5y ago
If you're paying for the electricity fairly, why should someone have a say in how you are using it? Electricity companies could limit these people, but they choose not to.
- FooHentai 5y ago
  I agree with your point in principle but there are numerous examples where this kind of approach reaches major roadblocks. If you have limited energy generating capacity and that energy is depended upon for life essentials (e.g. heat, light) then there comes a point that ramping up energy price due to people being able to make a profit off the back of it means cutting off other people's access to life essentials because they are priced out. We see this elsewhere as well - For example, production of biofuel occupies productive farmland. If farmers can make more producing biofuel crops than food staples, they'll chase the money. This leads to a rise in food prices and pits the price and food against the price of fuel.
avalys 5y ago
There are many things that are wasteful and yet not illegal. Flying to Hawaii for vacation. Recreational powerboats. Keeping your thermostat at 72F in the winter and 68F in the summer. Buying a house larger than 3,000 square feet. Commuting to work in an SUV. Having more than 3 children. In general, we only make things illegal if they are harmful to others. Mere consumption of electricity is not harmful to others, except indirectly in the same way that the aforementioned activities are. Would you propose banning them too? If not, where do you draw the line, and who gets to interpret your prescription?
- lelandfe 5y ago
  > If not, where do you draw the line, and who gets to interpret your prescription? These are both things to iron out in law later, not now in some philosophical way. Incandescent bulbs have been banned in countries around the world because of energy concerns. It's pretty clear that Bitcoin's energy usage is likewise a problem. Throwing our hands up and labeling calls for regulation around this a slippery slope doesn't help our climate criss.
  - avalys 5y ago
    If you want to do something about the climate crisis, do something about the climate crisis (e.g. a tax on carbon?) Don't single out something you don't like and ban it using the climate crisis as an excuse.
mwattsun 5y ago
It would be difficult to make it illegal in all jurisdictions in the world, so a 51% attack by a fed up nation state or states working together could shut it down. I am not an expert by any means, but it seems within the realm of possibily. With a per-unit consumption of 3250 W, that would put the electricity capacity needed to power all those ASICs at ~4.4 GW of power. That limits the possible candidates to pull off such a huge endeavor to powerful nation states who would work in coordination with large energy producers. (Jan 2020) https://braiins.com/blog/how-much-would-it-cost-to-51-attack-bitcoin https://braiins.com/blog/how-much-would-it-cost-to-51-attack...

Why is this not simply illegal?

xutopia 5y ago

I heat my basement with a mining rig. Why should that be illegal?

zeusk 5y ago
The same reason for why you shouldn't be heating your basement with coal.
spankalee 5y ago
And you turn it off when you don't actually need the heat, right? Right?

crashpro 5y ago

If you're paying for the electricity fairly, why should someone have a say in how you are using it? Electricity companies could limit these people, but they choose not to.

FooHentai 5y ago
I agree with your point in principle but there are numerous examples where this kind of approach reaches major roadblocks. If you have limited energy generating capacity and that energy is depended upon for life essentials (e.g. heat, light) then there comes a point that ramping up energy price due to people being able to make a profit off the back of it means cutting off other people's access to life essentials because they are priced out. We see this elsewhere as well - For example, production of biofuel occupies productive farmland. If farmers can make more producing biofuel crops than food staples, they'll chase the money. This leads to a rise in food prices and pits the price and food against the price of fuel.

avalys 5y ago

There are many things that are wasteful and yet not illegal. Flying to Hawaii for vacation. Recreational powerboats. Keeping your thermostat at 72F in the winter and 68F in the summer. Buying a house larger than 3,000 square feet. Commuting to work in an SUV. Having more than 3 children. In general, we only make things illegal if they are harmful to others. Mere consumption of electricity is not harmful to others, except indirectly in the same way that the aforementioned activities are. Would you propose banning them too? If not, where do you draw the line, and who gets to interpret your prescription?

lelandfe 5y ago
> If not, where do you draw the line, and who gets to interpret your prescription? These are both things to iron out in law later, not now in some philosophical way. Incandescent bulbs have been banned in countries around the world because of energy concerns. It's pretty clear that Bitcoin's energy usage is likewise a problem. Throwing our hands up and labeling calls for regulation around this a slippery slope doesn't help our climate criss.
- avalys 5y ago
  If you want to do something about the climate crisis, do something about the climate crisis (e.g. a tax on carbon?) Don't single out something you don't like and ban it using the climate crisis as an excuse.

mwattsun 5y ago

It would be difficult to make it illegal in all jurisdictions in the world, so a 51% attack by a fed up nation state or states working together could shut it down. I am not an expert by any means, but it seems within the realm of possibily. With a per-unit consumption of 3250 W, that would put the electricity capacity needed to power all those ASICs at ~4.4 GW of power. That limits the possible candidates to pull off such a huge endeavor to powerful nation states who would work in coordination with large energy producers. (Jan 2020) https://braiins.com/blog/how-much-would-it-cost-to-51-attack-bitcoin https://braiins.com/blog/how-much-would-it-cost-to-51-attack...