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That's an interesting point, but I don't think the American distinction relates to 'danger' rather, it's just that they are less formal, more gregarious, less s

That's an interesting point, but I don't think the American distinction relates to 'danger' rather, it's just that they are less formal, more gregarious, less social protocol, and more familiar.

motohagiography 5y ago
It's danger because the concept of polite has remnants of frontier culture, and just like the commonwealth doesn't have "nobles" anymore america doesn't have gunslingers, but I'm saying the origin of the etiquette that forms the culture is related to them. Americans are very formal with very strictly observed social protocols, you're just not allowed to talk about them because then it would acknowledge class, which is the last great taboo there. If you want to see what breaking American formal rules and social protocols looks like, tease them for crossing personal boundaries or poke fun at uniquely middle class aspirations, and it can make you an enemy for life. Recent American etiquette requires that you just "get it," in terms of who has the power in a situation because they very-officially don't use formalisms, and this tacit alignment and sensitivity to its shifts in particular is a big class signifier there. Most of them don't have a cultural abstraction for relating impersonally, where in other cultures you would acknowledge you are relating based on implied rules. Sometimes it's a relief, and sometimes the cringe is almost fatal. A personal example would be that to me, west coast culture is a lot like being around revolutionary marxists who make a point of being rude to wait staff because they think civility is bourgeois oppression, so as an outsider with normal adult boundaries, I can find it a bit alien. The culture I'm from emphasizes relating to service by learning to be worthy of it, which is probably equally bizarre to someone not familiar with that kind of interaction. You don't get a lot of "americans are weird," perspective these days because the internet just assumes everyone has been educated by television shows that were written to entertain people, and mimicking actors is normal behaviour, but since we're into accents and culture, yes, americans can be pretty weird. :)
- justsomehnguy 5y ago
  > it would acknowledge class Somewhat recently I stumbled upon a commentary about how sometimes Russians are perceived by Amercians as almost snobby by the way they talk. As I understood it's just the result of Received Pronunciation and a pretty formal English by the book, without an actual, "live" language.
  - jollybean 5y ago
    Russians don't smile, show cues of empathy, they are serious, they are candid, which can come off as 'snobby'.
    - justsomehnguy 5y ago
      In that case it was solely through the choice of words and phrase composition, AFAIR. One thing I remember is what they often used "I suppose" construct in the casual speech, which rubbed off their peers.
      - OJFord 5y ago
        A Canadian was teasing me (British) for that recently, found it quite baffling. It's not like the meaning or idea isn't communicated in North America - there they just say 'I guess' instead! (And if the current trend continues, I suppose (!!) we'll soon be mocked for saying 'I think' instead of 'I feel like'!)
- jollybean 5y ago
  I think you're fantasizing quite a lot here. 'Polite' has nothing to do with 'fear' of gunslingers. And 'common, middle class politeness' is just a behaviour along the same way as not farting, swearing scratching your balls. "you're just not allowed to talk about them because then it would acknowledge class" No, nobody is worried that you're going to bring up class. There are some PC taboos which if broken, will cause some people to be upset, but that's more or less social politics, not class. "west coast culture is a lot like being around revolutionary marxists who make a point of being rude to wait staff because they think civility is bourgeois oppression," I don't want to upset you but this is a ridiculous. I respect creative contemplation, but this is nowhere near reality.

That's an interesting point, but I don't think the American distinction relates to 'danger' rather, it's just that they are less formal, more gregarious, less social protocol, and more familiar.

motohagiography 5y ago

It's danger because the concept of polite has remnants of frontier culture, and just like the commonwealth doesn't have "nobles" anymore america doesn't have gunslingers, but I'm saying the origin of the etiquette that forms the culture is related to them. Americans are very formal with very strictly observed social protocols, you're just not allowed to talk about them because then it would acknowledge class, which is the last great taboo there. If you want to see what breaking American formal rules and social protocols looks like, tease them for crossing personal boundaries or poke fun at uniquely middle class aspirations, and it can make you an enemy for life. Recent American etiquette requires that you just "get it," in terms of who has the power in a situation because they very-officially don't use formalisms, and this tacit alignment and sensitivity to its shifts in particular is a big class signifier there. Most of them don't have a cultural abstraction for relating impersonally, where in other cultures you would acknowledge you are relating based on implied rules. Sometimes it's a relief, and sometimes the cringe is almost fatal. A personal example would be that to me, west coast culture is a lot like being around revolutionary marxists who make a point of being rude to wait staff because they think civility is bourgeois oppression, so as an outsider with normal adult boundaries, I can find it a bit alien. The culture I'm from emphasizes relating to service by learning to be worthy of it, which is probably equally bizarre to someone not familiar with that kind of interaction. You don't get a lot of "americans are weird," perspective these days because the internet just assumes everyone has been educated by television shows that were written to entertain people, and mimicking actors is normal behaviour, but since we're into accents and culture, yes, americans can be pretty weird. :)

justsomehnguy 5y ago
> it would acknowledge class Somewhat recently I stumbled upon a commentary about how sometimes Russians are perceived by Amercians as almost snobby by the way they talk. As I understood it's just the result of Received Pronunciation and a pretty formal English by the book, without an actual, "live" language.
- jollybean 5y ago
  Russians don't smile, show cues of empathy, they are serious, they are candid, which can come off as 'snobby'.
  - justsomehnguy 5y ago
    In that case it was solely through the choice of words and phrase composition, AFAIR. One thing I remember is what they often used "I suppose" construct in the casual speech, which rubbed off their peers.
    - OJFord 5y ago
      A Canadian was teasing me (British) for that recently, found it quite baffling. It's not like the meaning or idea isn't communicated in North America - there they just say 'I guess' instead! (And if the current trend continues, I suppose (!!) we'll soon be mocked for saying 'I think' instead of 'I feel like'!)
jollybean 5y ago
I think you're fantasizing quite a lot here. 'Polite' has nothing to do with 'fear' of gunslingers. And 'common, middle class politeness' is just a behaviour along the same way as not farting, swearing scratching your balls. "you're just not allowed to talk about them because then it would acknowledge class" No, nobody is worried that you're going to bring up class. There are some PC taboos which if broken, will cause some people to be upset, but that's more or less social politics, not class. "west coast culture is a lot like being around revolutionary marxists who make a point of being rude to wait staff because they think civility is bourgeois oppression," I don't want to upset you but this is a ridiculous. I respect creative contemplation, but this is nowhere near reality.