6 ms·

I think many of your examples are of times we failed to counter problematic tendencies as a society, gave up, and then even worse (in this case, more addictive

by bnralt 5y ago

I think many of your examples are of times we failed to counter problematic tendencies as a society, gave up, and then even worse (in this case, more addictive time consuming activities) things come along. It's basically the realization of a slippery slope, where failure to stop one problematic trend is used to justify an even worse trend. Society can survive with bad tendencies. Think about 50 years ago when American restaurants were full of cigarette smoke, and rivers would get so polluted they'd catch on fire. People still survived, even thrived. If we had ignored those problems, probably someone today would be saying "Opiates? Global warming? Just more moral panics, the way a few decades ago everyone was worried about the environment and smoking." The dangerous thing is that once these trends become part of your society, it's hard to imagine the world without them, and hard to see why people make such a fuss about them because they can become an immutable part of your reality. You become blind to them. I'm sure, given enough time, we'll become blind to new negative trends in society just as we've become blind to previous negative trends. But that's not a good thing.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"it's hard to imagine the world without them" There is soviet sci-fi novel that features a distopian society where people a killed before they become frail and become a burdain, and its considered an honour. They can't imagine the world otherwise.
- greggman3 5y ago
  Sounds similar to Logan's Run
- rkk3 5y ago
  "Carrousel" from Logan's Run, is the western equivalent.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  I think that was also a storyline in a Twilight Zone episode.
- int_19h 5y ago
  For the curious, it's "The Hour of the Bull" by Ivan Yefremov. (It should be noted that this particular feature is not the central premise of the book, but merely one of the facets of said dystopian society.)
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
Totally agree. When I hear the argument "People always say this, they said this before with TV and videogames", it just makes me think that people are discounting some of the huge negative impacts these technologies have had (or at least contributed to). Just look at the overall physical fitness of, say, an average 18 year old in 1950 vs today in the US. By loads of measures (obesity, muscle strength, cardiovascular fitness, diabetes, etc.) there is an enormous degradation in the physical fitness of America's youth. I'm certainly not blaming this all on TV and videogames, but at the same time I think it's a huge mistake to pretend our technological advances haven't had other, large negative side effects.
- freewilly1040 5y ago
  Slight tangent re: fitness. Over Christmas my dad and some similarly aged people (70’s) were reminiscing about their childhood, and pointed to the lack of Doritos as memorable. Junk food was neither the product of decades of addictiveness-enhancing R&D not cheap. A poor person today by contrast has junk food as the cheapest option.
  - redisman 5y ago
    Cheapest by effort plus taste divided by cost maybe. It’s still much cheaper to buy a bag of rice and a bag of beans and some frozen veggies. You can eat sub $1 meals
    - jmknoll 5y ago
      Thank you! This line about "unhealthy food is the most affordable option" doesn't really hold up in my experience. Some "superfoods," exotic fruits, nice cuts of meat and fish, and certain vegetables are expensive, and that's a problem, but its a problem at the margins. The basic building blocks of a healthy diet are all widely available and affordable. Some quick googling says the avg price for a dozen eggs in the US is $1.48. A can of tuna is $0.77. A pound of bananas is $0.57. A pound of potatoes $0.75. Dried beans/lentils/rice are even cheaper. I understand there are complicating factors. You need a place to cook, and a big mac probably generally looks more enticing than canned fish, especially if you've spent all day on your feet at a job you hate. But these are separate problems, unrelated to the food supply chain.
woolion 5y ago
Technology does not respect biology. There is a mechanical view of man, that is similar to what hydroponics is to gardening. You look what are the required nutrients etc, and provide just that in a very sterile environment. Of course, the results are quite garbage. The fruits are tasteless, and the problems it brings (e.g. insect infestations) require a lot of pesticides. The technological vision is to solve these problems with new technological solutions. If modern life has become unbearable, it's not a worry because there are pills, wondrous cannabinoids, etc, to fix defective individuals. Quite a society!
- dgb23 5y ago
  But all of those things increase the GDP, so they are automatically an improvement.
  - woolion 5y ago
    Someone posted "The bicycle is the slow death of the planet" not so long ago. It's not meant to be taken literally, but this is not very far from some people's line of thinking.
- vaylian 5y ago
  Well put. In addition, biology can't really be patched. CRIPSR nonwithstanding. We are stuck with the bugs that developed many thousands of years ago. Our bugs will continue to be exploited.
- hoseja 5y ago
  There is no path but mastering ourselves eventually, idiosyncracies included.

by bnralt 5y ago

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

"it's hard to imagine the world without them" There is soviet sci-fi novel that features a distopian society where people a killed before they become frail and become a burdain, and its considered an honour. They can't imagine the world otherwise.

greggman3 5y ago
Sounds similar to Logan's Run
rkk3 5y ago
"Carrousel" from Logan's Run, is the western equivalent.
throwawayboise 5y ago
I think that was also a storyline in a Twilight Zone episode.
int_19h 5y ago
For the curious, it's "The Hour of the Bull" by Ivan Yefremov. (It should be noted that this particular feature is not the central premise of the book, but merely one of the facets of said dystopian society.)

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

Totally agree. When I hear the argument "People always say this, they said this before with TV and videogames", it just makes me think that people are discounting some of the huge negative impacts these technologies have had (or at least contributed to). Just look at the overall physical fitness of, say, an average 18 year old in 1950 vs today in the US. By loads of measures (obesity, muscle strength, cardiovascular fitness, diabetes, etc.) there is an enormous degradation in the physical fitness of America's youth. I'm certainly not blaming this all on TV and videogames, but at the same time I think it's a huge mistake to pretend our technological advances haven't had other, large negative side effects.

freewilly1040 5y ago
Slight tangent re: fitness. Over Christmas my dad and some similarly aged people (70’s) were reminiscing about their childhood, and pointed to the lack of Doritos as memorable. Junk food was neither the product of decades of addictiveness-enhancing R&D not cheap. A poor person today by contrast has junk food as the cheapest option.
- redisman 5y ago
  Cheapest by effort plus taste divided by cost maybe. It’s still much cheaper to buy a bag of rice and a bag of beans and some frozen veggies. You can eat sub $1 meals
  - jmknoll 5y ago
    Thank you! This line about "unhealthy food is the most affordable option" doesn't really hold up in my experience. Some "superfoods," exotic fruits, nice cuts of meat and fish, and certain vegetables are expensive, and that's a problem, but its a problem at the margins. The basic building blocks of a healthy diet are all widely available and affordable. Some quick googling says the avg price for a dozen eggs in the US is $1.48. A can of tuna is $0.77. A pound of bananas is $0.57. A pound of potatoes $0.75. Dried beans/lentils/rice are even cheaper. I understand there are complicating factors. You need a place to cook, and a big mac probably generally looks more enticing than canned fish, especially if you've spent all day on your feet at a job you hate. But these are separate problems, unrelated to the food supply chain.

woolion 5y ago

Technology does not respect biology. There is a mechanical view of man, that is similar to what hydroponics is to gardening. You look what are the required nutrients etc, and provide just that in a very sterile environment. Of course, the results are quite garbage. The fruits are tasteless, and the problems it brings (e.g. insect infestations) require a lot of pesticides. The technological vision is to solve these problems with new technological solutions. If modern life has become unbearable, it's not a worry because there are pills, wondrous cannabinoids, etc, to fix defective individuals. Quite a society!

dgb23 5y ago
But all of those things increase the GDP, so they are automatically an improvement.
- woolion 5y ago
  Someone posted "The bicycle is the slow death of the planet" not so long ago. It's not meant to be taken literally, but this is not very far from some people's line of thinking.
vaylian 5y ago
Well put. In addition, biology can't really be patched. CRIPSR nonwithstanding. We are stuck with the bugs that developed many thousands of years ago. Our bugs will continue to be exploited.
hoseja 5y ago
There is no path but mastering ourselves eventually, idiosyncracies included.