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Oh okay wow. And you've been here longer than me. I understand the push for engagement and the idea of preventing mass bot accounts, but I'd think after a few y

by 37 5y ago

Oh okay wow. And you've been here longer than me. I understand the push for engagement and the idea of preventing mass bot accounts, but I'd think after a few years they would give the ability. Wonder if they have considered this...

Chyzwar 5y ago
If someone cannot contribute to discussion in a meaningful way, why they should have the right to downvote?
- null_shift 5y ago
  Interesting question. I think there are those of us that enjoy following along with a discussion as opposed to directly participating in it. A “lurker” if you will. For myself, I like to do this to see opposing viewpoints on a topic, to help crystalize my own thoughts. Also, I often read on mobile and don’t have the patience to write lengthy replies on my iPhone keyboard. I’m not necessarily saying that users like myself deserve the right to dowvote, but I do consider myself part of this community, even if I am not actively “participating” by writing comments.
  - 37 5y ago
    Thanks for putting it in those words. I am very much a lurker. If I did have the ability to downvote, I would do it maybe two or three times a year, like I do on reddit. >Also, I often read on mobile and don’t have the patience to write lengthy replies on my iPhone keyboard. This also rings true. Or sometimes when I don't have the time or energy to sit down and write out a reasoned response.
    - tharkun__ 5y ago
      Disclaimer: I have been here way less than 10 years. At least w/ an account, lurking before that without an account even. Lengthy replies are not needed at all. Look at this recent article https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29756714 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29756714 and find my reply. Very short but it adds information to the discussion in that Microsoft is not alone in this and other large vendors have such problems too. I did a CTRL-F to see if anyone else had mentioned SAP already and since they didn't, I did a quick Google search to find corroborating evidence of what I knew from work like 10 years ago about SAP production systems shutting down due to DST changes. People upvoted this. Maybe, just maybe (!) - going out on a limb here that might get me downvoted, I didn't go through your comment history - there's a hint in your and your parent's reply: no patience for a reasoned response. I think if you really try for reasoned responses, even force yourself to type out that reasoned response, especially on the phone, as it slows you down, it can give you the time you need to make it a reasoned response. It's very easy and fast to write an inflammatory response. Side note: I don't know if you have ever been downvoted yourself but that obviously doesn't help w/ the karma you got ;) If that is the case, there are other things we can discuss about how to change that but for now I won't just assume that this is the case and shut up.
  - gtirloni 5y ago
    Just contribute some links and you'll get karma as well. No need to engage in discussions.
elkos 5y ago
Been here doesn't mean I was active in any meaningful way or made any significant contributions to the community. I do encourage you to be active, there are several users out there with great insights and the level of discourse is pretty high even if people have a different point of view or opinion in a subject matter.
Retric 5y ago
For lack of a better term it’s proof of work. Simply making accounts and waiting is easy, you don’t want the temptation to create a lot of accounts then heavily downvote people you disagree with. Voting rings seem like an easy way around this but tend to be easy to catch.
- 37 5y ago
  I mean... I guess I understand, maybe just the threshold feels a little high for introverts like me (and the others who have commented here with accounts lasting many years and <501 karma). Also, for some reason, I sorta had the assumption that HN users wouldn't be that level of malicious (maybe because these rules exist, or maybe because they seem smarter than the average bear, or maybe because I'm crazy and see HN as some getaway paradise oasis that I can escape to and get some rational reasonable informative content).
  - bravenous 5y ago
    - 37 5y ago
      Well, I can't downvote you, as you know, nor would I if I had the ability, (nor have you had any downvotes yet from what I can tell) but I feel like they are coming. But, hey, internet points, who cares... right? There is a groupthink in tech, and media, and commerce in general, and yes probably even here on HN. The extent of which, I cannot speak to, so I will leave it to someone more knowledgeable. And can't say I know much about the Stasi, but this sentence: >I had my comments removed for benign stuff like blockchain driven shared database will usher participatory democracy, a pattern of Hinduphobic posts on HN and a class systems existing in US and UK with Ivy leaguers and Eton graduates. I have read a few times and still don't understand. I'm assuming this is the reasoning they gave when they removed your comment(s)? I feel like I understand all the words, just not sure if it's you saying you were being Hinduphobic, or if it was them saying you were being Hinduphobic. At the same time I feel, of course there is a class system in the US and UK, that's basically undeniable. How much of it revolves around schooling is, once again, a question for someone other than me.
inetknght 5y ago
> I'd think after a few years they would give the ability. That would just encourage bots to sit for years and let their timers expire before letting themselves known.
- 37 5y ago
  Are people really that petty? Or is it like a mass-agenda, control-the-narrative type of thing? For some reason I didn't(don't?) think this would happen, especially on HN. Maybe I'm being obtuse or naive.
  - booleandilemma 5y ago
    I’ve observed that the world operates on the principle of: “if someone can, someone will”. So if HN worked the way you describe, someone would create “sleeper bots” that would emerge only after x years.
shawnz 5y ago
Why should age of account be factored in at all? What does it prove?
- lillecarl 5y ago
  That you have had an account for a long time, other than that I'd say essentially nothing.
drewcoo 5y ago
Just like anything else, should seniority be measured in time served, accomplishments, potential, passion, social skills, or other?
tptacek 5y ago
You're not missing much! Being able to downvote people isn't going to make your HN experience much better.

by 37 5y ago

Chyzwar 5y ago

If someone cannot contribute to discussion in a meaningful way, why they should have the right to downvote?

null_shift 5y ago
Interesting question. I think there are those of us that enjoy following along with a discussion as opposed to directly participating in it. A “lurker” if you will. For myself, I like to do this to see opposing viewpoints on a topic, to help crystalize my own thoughts. Also, I often read on mobile and don’t have the patience to write lengthy replies on my iPhone keyboard. I’m not necessarily saying that users like myself deserve the right to dowvote, but I do consider myself part of this community, even if I am not actively “participating” by writing comments.
- 37 5y ago
  Thanks for putting it in those words. I am very much a lurker. If I did have the ability to downvote, I would do it maybe two or three times a year, like I do on reddit. >Also, I often read on mobile and don’t have the patience to write lengthy replies on my iPhone keyboard. This also rings true. Or sometimes when I don't have the time or energy to sit down and write out a reasoned response.
  - tharkun__ 5y ago
    Disclaimer: I have been here way less than 10 years. At least w/ an account, lurking before that without an account even. Lengthy replies are not needed at all. Look at this recent article https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29756714 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29756714 and find my reply. Very short but it adds information to the discussion in that Microsoft is not alone in this and other large vendors have such problems too. I did a CTRL-F to see if anyone else had mentioned SAP already and since they didn't, I did a quick Google search to find corroborating evidence of what I knew from work like 10 years ago about SAP production systems shutting down due to DST changes. People upvoted this. Maybe, just maybe (!) - going out on a limb here that might get me downvoted, I didn't go through your comment history - there's a hint in your and your parent's reply: no patience for a reasoned response. I think if you really try for reasoned responses, even force yourself to type out that reasoned response, especially on the phone, as it slows you down, it can give you the time you need to make it a reasoned response. It's very easy and fast to write an inflammatory response. Side note: I don't know if you have ever been downvoted yourself but that obviously doesn't help w/ the karma you got ;) If that is the case, there are other things we can discuss about how to change that but for now I won't just assume that this is the case and shut up.
- gtirloni 5y ago
  Just contribute some links and you'll get karma as well. No need to engage in discussions.

elkos 5y ago

Been here doesn't mean I was active in any meaningful way or made any significant contributions to the community. I do encourage you to be active, there are several users out there with great insights and the level of discourse is pretty high even if people have a different point of view or opinion in a subject matter.

Retric 5y ago

For lack of a better term it’s proof of work. Simply making accounts and waiting is easy, you don’t want the temptation to create a lot of accounts then heavily downvote people you disagree with. Voting rings seem like an easy way around this but tend to be easy to catch.

37 5y ago
I mean... I guess I understand, maybe just the threshold feels a little high for introverts like me (and the others who have commented here with accounts lasting many years and <501 karma). Also, for some reason, I sorta had the assumption that HN users wouldn't be that level of malicious (maybe because these rules exist, or maybe because they seem smarter than the average bear, or maybe because I'm crazy and see HN as some getaway paradise oasis that I can escape to and get some rational reasonable informative content).
- bravenous 5y ago
  - 37 5y ago
    Well, I can't downvote you, as you know, nor would I if I had the ability, (nor have you had any downvotes yet from what I can tell) but I feel like they are coming. But, hey, internet points, who cares... right? There is a groupthink in tech, and media, and commerce in general, and yes probably even here on HN. The extent of which, I cannot speak to, so I will leave it to someone more knowledgeable. And can't say I know much about the Stasi, but this sentence: >I had my comments removed for benign stuff like blockchain driven shared database will usher participatory democracy, a pattern of Hinduphobic posts on HN and a class systems existing in US and UK with Ivy leaguers and Eton graduates. I have read a few times and still don't understand. I'm assuming this is the reasoning they gave when they removed your comment(s)? I feel like I understand all the words, just not sure if it's you saying you were being Hinduphobic, or if it was them saying you were being Hinduphobic. At the same time I feel, of course there is a class system in the US and UK, that's basically undeniable. How much of it revolves around schooling is, once again, a question for someone other than me.

inetknght 5y ago

> I'd think after a few years they would give the ability. That would just encourage bots to sit for years and let their timers expire before letting themselves known.

37 5y ago
Are people really that petty? Or is it like a mass-agenda, control-the-narrative type of thing? For some reason I didn't(don't?) think this would happen, especially on HN. Maybe I'm being obtuse or naive.
- booleandilemma 5y ago
  I’ve observed that the world operates on the principle of: “if someone can, someone will”. So if HN worked the way you describe, someone would create “sleeper bots” that would emerge only after x years.

shawnz 5y ago

Why should age of account be factored in at all? What does it prove?

lillecarl 5y ago
That you have had an account for a long time, other than that I'd say essentially nothing.

drewcoo 5y ago

Just like anything else, should seniority be measured in time served, accomplishments, potential, passion, social skills, or other?

tptacek 5y ago

You're not missing much! Being able to downvote people isn't going to make your HN experience much better.