3 ms·

Bit off topic, but whats going on with there being pronouns next to names in the video chat recording ? Is this some new standard ? Should I start adding he/hi

by v-erne 5y ago

Bit off topic, but whats going on with there being pronouns next to names in the video chat recording ? Is this some new standard ? Should I start adding he/him just in case I offend someone by not being explicite with something that is rather obvious in 99% of cases?

jackbrookes 5y ago
It's not about offending someone, it's about allowing people from marginalised groups feel comfortable.
- v-erne 5y ago
KronisLV 5y ago
Some people's preferred pronouns might not necessarily match what others might pick to refer to them with on their own. For example, in my social circle a few AFAB friends prefer the "he/him" pronouns which might not be immediately obvious to others. Normalizing putting our pronouns next to our names seems like a good way to approach this, without needing to explicitly ask others, or make them correct you, which seems nice, as it is pretty much effortless to do. I wouldn't call it weird, just something that takes getting a bit of used to, but addresses shortcomings in the language. Much like how the Mrs. and Ms. thing is not obvious by looking at someone and therefore needs to be pointed out.
- v-erne 5y ago
  For the few people out of thousands that this really matters - sure, they can use this to help address them property. But I think what we seeing here goes a bit too far. What's that saying ... You can't see the forest for the trees - yeah that's the one. Dr Clifton is using (he/him) when he has no reason for doing this. Of course You can try to explain this as solidarity but for me it threads dangerously close to some kind of strange conformity to woke culture (I still don't understand why this is the minority that was granted this kind of political power - there are lots of other minorities that could also use this kind of recognition).
  - KronisLV 5y ago
    > Dr Clifton is using (he/him) when he has no reason for doing this. Of course You can try to explain this as solidarity but for me it threads dangerously close to some kind of strange conformity to woke culture. One possible reason in my eyes is indeed what you're hinting at - normalization of doing this and thus solidarity in a way, at least that'd be my best guess. I find it odd that many websites out there feel like they should ask me for my gender when that has nothing to do with the services that they'll offer me, most likely being some advertising/data mining scheme or just a data point that's ingrained in our culture that they think they're deserving of. Similarly, i don't see why pronouns are that different. It's just that in non-online mediums you can attempt to figure those out based on how people present themselves, at least sometimes, should they be relevant, however that's not always possible online, hence being asked to point those out. Of course, if the aforementioned AFAB friends want to use masculine pronouns, people around them presenting theirs, even when they're the "default" ones makes it easier for them to not feel awkward about their self expression. On the opposite end, might as well use gender neutral pronouns for everyone, if that doesn't matter that much, even though that most likely won't be done either because of information loss. Some languages out there have even more pronouns and feminine/masculine forms of words - languages and social aspects are sometimes curious and puzzling. Oh, also Japanese honorifics are as interesting as they are overcomplicated, cool stuff. > I still don't understand why this is the minority that was granted this kind of political power - there are lots of other minorities that could also use this kind of recognition. This may or may not have something to do with the fact that it's relatively easy to do and doesn't take large amounts of effort to be nice to someone in that regard. The whole Git master to main branch thing and master/slave to leader/follower and whitelist/blacklist to allowlist/denylist thing probably took more effort than that. Sometimes these newer terms actually make more sense than the older ones, though. As for other minorities that could use recognition - sure! I don't get up in the morning and think: "Hmm, today i'd like to be kind to LGBTQIA+ people, but i'll only care about racial issues on Wednesday." There's no reason not to be nice to most people, it's not like our capacity to do that is so limited for it to be hard. Now, admittedly, i don't agree with everything that's happened in the world, like how Richard Stallman was cancelled over some claims that to me read like expressions of him not being entirely neurotypical and perhaps caring only for the facts (which isn't wrong) whilst lacking social tact (which isn't good, but also probably not deserving of the scale of backlash). But for the things that seem like they might make sense and aren't actively making the world a worse place, i guess i can get with the times and be supportive of them.
wheelerof4te 5y ago
- v-erne 5y ago
  From my perspective (conservative part of Europe) in America it's not seeping - it is total downpour (If I were a believer I would say: where's Noah when You need him?). I'm not sure why, but I started thinking about "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam" when I saw this (he/him) thing for the first time.

by v-erne 5y ago

jackbrookes 5y ago

It's not about offending someone, it's about allowing people from marginalised groups feel comfortable.

v-erne 5y ago

KronisLV 5y ago

Some people's preferred pronouns might not necessarily match what others might pick to refer to them with on their own. For example, in my social circle a few AFAB friends prefer the "he/him" pronouns which might not be immediately obvious to others. Normalizing putting our pronouns next to our names seems like a good way to approach this, without needing to explicitly ask others, or make them correct you, which seems nice, as it is pretty much effortless to do. I wouldn't call it weird, just something that takes getting a bit of used to, but addresses shortcomings in the language. Much like how the Mrs. and Ms. thing is not obvious by looking at someone and therefore needs to be pointed out.

v-erne 5y ago
For the few people out of thousands that this really matters - sure, they can use this to help address them property. But I think what we seeing here goes a bit too far. What's that saying ... You can't see the forest for the trees - yeah that's the one. Dr Clifton is using (he/him) when he has no reason for doing this. Of course You can try to explain this as solidarity but for me it threads dangerously close to some kind of strange conformity to woke culture (I still don't understand why this is the minority that was granted this kind of political power - there are lots of other minorities that could also use this kind of recognition).
- KronisLV 5y ago
  > Dr Clifton is using (he/him) when he has no reason for doing this. Of course You can try to explain this as solidarity but for me it threads dangerously close to some kind of strange conformity to woke culture. One possible reason in my eyes is indeed what you're hinting at - normalization of doing this and thus solidarity in a way, at least that'd be my best guess. I find it odd that many websites out there feel like they should ask me for my gender when that has nothing to do with the services that they'll offer me, most likely being some advertising/data mining scheme or just a data point that's ingrained in our culture that they think they're deserving of. Similarly, i don't see why pronouns are that different. It's just that in non-online mediums you can attempt to figure those out based on how people present themselves, at least sometimes, should they be relevant, however that's not always possible online, hence being asked to point those out. Of course, if the aforementioned AFAB friends want to use masculine pronouns, people around them presenting theirs, even when they're the "default" ones makes it easier for them to not feel awkward about their self expression. On the opposite end, might as well use gender neutral pronouns for everyone, if that doesn't matter that much, even though that most likely won't be done either because of information loss. Some languages out there have even more pronouns and feminine/masculine forms of words - languages and social aspects are sometimes curious and puzzling. Oh, also Japanese honorifics are as interesting as they are overcomplicated, cool stuff. > I still don't understand why this is the minority that was granted this kind of political power - there are lots of other minorities that could also use this kind of recognition. This may or may not have something to do with the fact that it's relatively easy to do and doesn't take large amounts of effort to be nice to someone in that regard. The whole Git master to main branch thing and master/slave to leader/follower and whitelist/blacklist to allowlist/denylist thing probably took more effort than that. Sometimes these newer terms actually make more sense than the older ones, though. As for other minorities that could use recognition - sure! I don't get up in the morning and think: "Hmm, today i'd like to be kind to LGBTQIA+ people, but i'll only care about racial issues on Wednesday." There's no reason not to be nice to most people, it's not like our capacity to do that is so limited for it to be hard. Now, admittedly, i don't agree with everything that's happened in the world, like how Richard Stallman was cancelled over some claims that to me read like expressions of him not being entirely neurotypical and perhaps caring only for the facts (which isn't wrong) whilst lacking social tact (which isn't good, but also probably not deserving of the scale of backlash). But for the things that seem like they might make sense and aren't actively making the world a worse place, i guess i can get with the times and be supportive of them.

wheelerof4te 5y ago

v-erne 5y ago
From my perspective (conservative part of Europe) in America it's not seeping - it is total downpour (If I were a believer I would say: where's Noah when You need him?). I'm not sure why, but I started thinking about "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam" when I saw this (he/him) thing for the first time.