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The premise behind self driving cars that can handle most situations themselves relies on the assumption that a human operator is paying attention and can take

by u801e 5y ago

The premise behind self driving cars that can handle most situations themselves relies on the assumption that a human operator is paying attention and can take over in situations the computer can't handle. I'm not a pilot, but it's likely that assumption can hold while flying at cruising altitude, but not so much when driving in various inconsistent road and traffic conditions.

PKop 5y ago
>human operator is paying attention Think of how silly this is though. You offload driving to a car, then...demand passenger give absolute attention every second that car operates itself. For one, this is a pointless tool if you have to monitor it all the time. For another, it is impossible that humans will be able to focus their attentions fully when they aren't really doing anything to drive the car. The better self-driving gets (say, safe and effective 99.999% or any incremental level higher), the less the human monitor will actually be watching. Thus the more likely any error will be catastrophic.
- cm2187 5y ago
  My own experience is that I tend to snooze as a car passenger on a long trip while I do not when I am the one driving. No need for speculation, I know I would be incapable of taking over on a short notice if the car does something bad.
  - rocketbop 5y ago
    > My own experience is that I tend to snooze as a car passenger on a long trip while I do not when I am the one driving. I would hope not. :)
- onethought 5y ago
  It doesn’t follow that errors will be catestrophic. It could be the car just fails to handle edge case situations and just stops… granted on a highway that’s bad but everywhere else, that’s a hassle to traffic at worst. Also highway full self driving is much closer to being a solved problem. Even the failures you see in the beta of Tesla FSD, aren’t catestrophic. The worst I’ve seen is a curb strikes in terms of actual “accidents”
  - tjoff 5y ago
    What you are describing is level 4. And if tesla were anywhere near that that would be freaking brilliant. Tesla FSD has many deaths and countless serious accidents under it's belt. Which doesn't necessarily have to be that bad, but as expected a computer doesn't make the same kind of mistakes that a human does and the kind of mistakes that tesla does doesn't inspire confidence (but rather nightmare fuel that you just can't wake up from). They should be banned until they have level 4 and take responsibility for their cars actions. Blaming it on a human driver and calling it a day is ludicrous.
    - yissp 5y ago
      > a computer doesn't make the same kind of mistakes that a human does I think this is particularly problematic because with other humans, we can at least develop a sense of what types of mistakes they tend to make and try to adjust our driving accordingly. Things like not driving in another person's blind-spot, etc. but also more subtle stuff. I feel like there a sort of hive-mind that develops amongst drivers and probably makes things safer than they would otherwise be.
    - onethought 5y ago
      Sorry. I haven’t seen any evidence of anything you said. There have been 0 deaths from FSD and as far as I’m aware only 1 crash. Do you mean autopilot? Or navigate on auto pilot?
  - dncornholio 5y ago
    I just looked up a random video of someone testing FSD 10.8 and in the first few minutes, it failed to signal before changing lanes and it almost caused an accident. All the while the driver is saying how good it is and how comfortable he is.. The car drives not smoothly at all and does random braking when around pedestrians. The car also features a yoke instead of a wheel. Which makes holding the yoke while autopilot is driving almost impossible. Autonomous driving is a mess.
    - onethought 5y ago
hoppla 5y ago
I almost crashed into a tesla on the highway when I changed lane right behind a Tesla. The Tesla was going much faster than me, and when I changed to its lane a bit too close, it started breaking for no reason, forcing me to jump on the brakes as well. I do not believe it was the driver, but the automatic brake assist that did not like me coming in too close…
- VBprogrammer 5y ago
  You understand that you made the mistake in that case right?
  - ddalex 5y ago
    why do you say that? sounds like he was braked-checked by the tesla of course, in a large sense, the one that hits from behind is at fault, but brake-checking is problematic
    - macintux 5y ago
      Problematic and completely unexpected. No one speeding past you is going to brake check you for moving into their lane, so this kind of behavior from a computer is inevitably going to lead to accidents.
      - mbreese 5y ago
        You can’t know what is in front of the other car or why the Tesla braked. It could have been passing a slower car or truck (likely given the situation as described). If that car swerved a bit into the Tesla’s lane, braking could have been the right choice. The car behind is always responsible for maintaining distance. Realistically, if the tesla felt squeezed by a car it was passing, going a bit onto the shoulder would have been what I would have expected from a human driver. But no auto steering, tesla or otherwise, is going to do that.
    - useerup 5y ago
      > of course, in a large sense, the one that hits from behind is at fault I don't know where you live, but where I live (Denmark) brake-checking is a serious traffic offense which can lead to loss of license. While the driver behind has to keep distance, you cannot brake for non-traffic reasons. I.e. you cannot simply brake-check someone on the freeway because you think the driver behind you is driving too close (also a serious offense).

by u801e 5y ago

PKop 5y ago

>human operator is paying attention Think of how silly this is though. You offload driving to a car, then...demand passenger give absolute attention every second that car operates itself. For one, this is a pointless tool if you have to monitor it all the time. For another, it is impossible that humans will be able to focus their attentions fully when they aren't really doing anything to drive the car. The better self-driving gets (say, safe and effective 99.999% or any incremental level higher), the less the human monitor will actually be watching. Thus the more likely any error will be catastrophic.

cm2187 5y ago
My own experience is that I tend to snooze as a car passenger on a long trip while I do not when I am the one driving. No need for speculation, I know I would be incapable of taking over on a short notice if the car does something bad.
- rocketbop 5y ago
  > My own experience is that I tend to snooze as a car passenger on a long trip while I do not when I am the one driving. I would hope not. :)
onethought 5y ago
It doesn’t follow that errors will be catestrophic. It could be the car just fails to handle edge case situations and just stops… granted on a highway that’s bad but everywhere else, that’s a hassle to traffic at worst. Also highway full self driving is much closer to being a solved problem. Even the failures you see in the beta of Tesla FSD, aren’t catestrophic. The worst I’ve seen is a curb strikes in terms of actual “accidents”
- tjoff 5y ago
  What you are describing is level 4. And if tesla were anywhere near that that would be freaking brilliant. Tesla FSD has many deaths and countless serious accidents under it's belt. Which doesn't necessarily have to be that bad, but as expected a computer doesn't make the same kind of mistakes that a human does and the kind of mistakes that tesla does doesn't inspire confidence (but rather nightmare fuel that you just can't wake up from). They should be banned until they have level 4 and take responsibility for their cars actions. Blaming it on a human driver and calling it a day is ludicrous.
  - yissp 5y ago
    > a computer doesn't make the same kind of mistakes that a human does I think this is particularly problematic because with other humans, we can at least develop a sense of what types of mistakes they tend to make and try to adjust our driving accordingly. Things like not driving in another person's blind-spot, etc. but also more subtle stuff. I feel like there a sort of hive-mind that develops amongst drivers and probably makes things safer than they would otherwise be.
  - onethought 5y ago
    Sorry. I haven’t seen any evidence of anything you said. There have been 0 deaths from FSD and as far as I’m aware only 1 crash. Do you mean autopilot? Or navigate on auto pilot?
- dncornholio 5y ago
  I just looked up a random video of someone testing FSD 10.8 and in the first few minutes, it failed to signal before changing lanes and it almost caused an accident. All the while the driver is saying how good it is and how comfortable he is.. The car drives not smoothly at all and does random braking when around pedestrians. The car also features a yoke instead of a wheel. Which makes holding the yoke while autopilot is driving almost impossible. Autonomous driving is a mess.
  - onethought 5y ago

hoppla 5y ago

I almost crashed into a tesla on the highway when I changed lane right behind a Tesla. The Tesla was going much faster than me, and when I changed to its lane a bit too close, it started breaking for no reason, forcing me to jump on the brakes as well. I do not believe it was the driver, but the automatic brake assist that did not like me coming in too close…

VBprogrammer 5y ago
You understand that you made the mistake in that case right?
- ddalex 5y ago
  why do you say that? sounds like he was braked-checked by the tesla of course, in a large sense, the one that hits from behind is at fault, but brake-checking is problematic
  - macintux 5y ago
    Problematic and completely unexpected. No one speeding past you is going to brake check you for moving into their lane, so this kind of behavior from a computer is inevitably going to lead to accidents.
    - mbreese 5y ago
      You can’t know what is in front of the other car or why the Tesla braked. It could have been passing a slower car or truck (likely given the situation as described). If that car swerved a bit into the Tesla’s lane, braking could have been the right choice. The car behind is always responsible for maintaining distance. Realistically, if the tesla felt squeezed by a car it was passing, going a bit onto the shoulder would have been what I would have expected from a human driver. But no auto steering, tesla or otherwise, is going to do that.
  - useerup 5y ago
    > of course, in a large sense, the one that hits from behind is at fault I don't know where you live, but where I live (Denmark) brake-checking is a serious traffic offense which can lead to loss of license. While the driver behind has to keep distance, you cannot brake for non-traffic reasons. I.e. you cannot simply brake-check someone on the freeway because you think the driver behind you is driving too close (also a serious offense).