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I've just gone from a 2004 Corolla to a 2020 Serrato. It's a low end car but it has lane assist, braking detection when a car slows in front, cruise, speed limi

I've just gone from a 2004 Corolla to a 2020 Serrato. It's a low end car but it has lane assist, braking detection when a car slows in front, cruise, speed limiter, etc. Combine all those settings with google maps and it easy for me to see how you could get complacent driving a new car and make mistakes. All these features work well most of the time, but they all notably fail on, still frequent, edge cases.

ngcc_hk 5y ago
Using a Hyundai hybrid and it got all these. It helped quite a lot as long as you consider yourselves a driver and in control. Still it is very weird when the car turn the wheel for you with your hand being guided. No hand up display and not sure if just voice to tell me to drive to lake would I do that.
PKop 5y ago
Yes and as with Tesla "FSD", supposedly the driver is to devote full attention to monitoring the car whenever activated. But this is silly because as these tools get better, the driver will inevitably monitor less. But it won't any time soon (ever?) avoid random errors every now and then. But now these will be catastrophic failures.
- xattt 5y ago
  Driver training should be updated to include what to do when self-driving modes are used (ie what do you actually do to supervise the vehicle, which checks to do, etc).
  - temac 5y ago
    I don't really see how the needed monitoring would be more interesting than fully driving the car, maybe with a few convenience and safety assistances. Planes can use autopilots because there are not litteraly surounded by traffics 2m away. If a car needs monitoring, and they will probably need it for a very long time, you should as well drive it.
    - PKop 5y ago
      > If a car needs monitoring, and they will probably need it for a very long time, you should as well drive it. This is the crux of the intractable problem of AI/self-driving marketing vaporware, and why until this nonsense is shut down, the situation will probably have to get scandalously worse before it gets better (better meaning regulating fake "self driving" off the road as a public safety travesty).
- grog454 5y ago
  > But this is silly because as these tools get better, the driver will inevitably monitor less. And for good reason. The main benefit to FSD, as I see it, is the ability to do something more productive with my time while getting from A to B. Most wealthy people end up paying for drivers not because they want an exceptional driver, but because once you reach a certain threshold of income it is more profitable to work (phone calls, laptop, w/e) or sleep, and pay to be driven everywhere than to drive yourself. FSD lowers that income threshold tremendously and could be a significant boon to overall human productivity. If it ever happens.
  - PKop 5y ago
    >is the ability to do something more productive with my time Seems to miss my point, I may have not stated clearly. Yes I understand the sales pitch of self driving cars stated above...the "marketing" / "hype" of AI/self driving cars/ Tesla FSD evokes the idea of completely offloading the responsibility to the car and doing whatever you want with your time during commutes, as if it was public transit. But my point was anything less than this is a complete waste of time and useless as a product because until you are completely hands and attention off, you have to be completely hands and attention on/ready...no matter how good or near actual FSD it gets. Because 99.9, or 99.9999, or 99.999999% effective is effectively 0 percent effective given the catastrophic outcome of any error if you aren't devoting full attention to monitoring the car. But aside from all of this theorizing, the actual product is NOWHERE near high 9's reliable. As it gets better, attention will drop but errors will still be pervasive. And with this as backdrop, the fact the marketing has ever even hinted at being general-AI type FSD (the name itself for example) is a scandal. The videos of people riding in the backseat, or any other instance of not monitoring the car fully because they think it can drive itself. I predict there's going to a be an endless stream of accidents from these cars then FSD will be shut down until fully proven, which won't be technically possible for a long long time if ever in our lifetimes.
    - grog454 5y ago
      > But my point was anything less than this is a complete waste of time and useless as a product because until you are completely hands and attention off, you have to be completely hands and attention on/ready...no matter how good or near actual FSD it gets. Agreed. If I got a Telsa tomorrow I wouldn't do so with "FSD". > Because 99.9, or 99.9999, or 99.999999% effective is effectively 0 percent effective given the catastrophic outcome of any error if you aren't devoting full attention to monitoring the car. I'm not sure what effectiveness you're measuring. There will always be fatal accidents with heavy vehicles moving at high speeds. It's more of a regulatory issue where the accident rate of auto-pilot systems is sufficiently lower than human drivers (because I believe it is already lower in many situations, just not sufficiently lower or ubiquitously lower) and we decide its good enough to no longer require monitoring by the driver. Edit: I guess its even more complicated than that. Using hypothetical numbers, if the accident-free rate of a human is 99%, and auto pilot is better at 99.9%, but combined (auto-pilot with human monitoring and rare intervention) is 99.999%, can we justify allowing no monitoring in that situation? Can we expect people to follow the law or will it turn in to more of a speed-limit type grey area.
bagels 5y ago
What is a Serrato? I've not heard of this kind of car. If it's a typo or something, apologies, I don't know what it could be. I'm not trying to be snarky, just genuinely curious what it is?
- ImaCake 5y ago
  Woops yes a typo on a Kia Cerato. At least that is what it is called here in Australia. https://www.kia.com/au/cars/cerato/features.html https://www.kia.com/au/cars/cerato/features.html
- RexM 5y ago
  My guess is a Kia Sorento Edit: Ah OP replied. It’s the Kia Forte in the US.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ozfive 5y ago
> Combine all those settings with google maps and it easy for me to see how you could get complacent driving a new car and make mistakes. This along with the fact that in my 2020 Toyota Corolla those features can more than likely get you into an accident is the reason I have them turned off. I don't actually feel safe with them on after experiencing their performance. Also notice a stutter in acceleration due to fuel injection timing and response from the gas pedal that concerns me.

ngcc_hk 5y ago

Using a Hyundai hybrid and it got all these. It helped quite a lot as long as you consider yourselves a driver and in control. Still it is very weird when the car turn the wheel for you with your hand being guided. No hand up display and not sure if just voice to tell me to drive to lake would I do that.

PKop 5y ago

Yes and as with Tesla "FSD", supposedly the driver is to devote full attention to monitoring the car whenever activated. But this is silly because as these tools get better, the driver will inevitably monitor less. But it won't any time soon (ever?) avoid random errors every now and then. But now these will be catastrophic failures.

xattt 5y ago
Driver training should be updated to include what to do when self-driving modes are used (ie what do you actually do to supervise the vehicle, which checks to do, etc).
- temac 5y ago
  I don't really see how the needed monitoring would be more interesting than fully driving the car, maybe with a few convenience and safety assistances. Planes can use autopilots because there are not litteraly surounded by traffics 2m away. If a car needs monitoring, and they will probably need it for a very long time, you should as well drive it.
  - PKop 5y ago
    > If a car needs monitoring, and they will probably need it for a very long time, you should as well drive it. This is the crux of the intractable problem of AI/self-driving marketing vaporware, and why until this nonsense is shut down, the situation will probably have to get scandalously worse before it gets better (better meaning regulating fake "self driving" off the road as a public safety travesty).
grog454 5y ago
> But this is silly because as these tools get better, the driver will inevitably monitor less. And for good reason. The main benefit to FSD, as I see it, is the ability to do something more productive with my time while getting from A to B. Most wealthy people end up paying for drivers not because they want an exceptional driver, but because once you reach a certain threshold of income it is more profitable to work (phone calls, laptop, w/e) or sleep, and pay to be driven everywhere than to drive yourself. FSD lowers that income threshold tremendously and could be a significant boon to overall human productivity. If it ever happens.
- PKop 5y ago
  >is the ability to do something more productive with my time Seems to miss my point, I may have not stated clearly. Yes I understand the sales pitch of self driving cars stated above...the "marketing" / "hype" of AI/self driving cars/ Tesla FSD evokes the idea of completely offloading the responsibility to the car and doing whatever you want with your time during commutes, as if it was public transit. But my point was anything less than this is a complete waste of time and useless as a product because until you are completely hands and attention off, you have to be completely hands and attention on/ready...no matter how good or near actual FSD it gets. Because 99.9, or 99.9999, or 99.999999% effective is effectively 0 percent effective given the catastrophic outcome of any error if you aren't devoting full attention to monitoring the car. But aside from all of this theorizing, the actual product is NOWHERE near high 9's reliable. As it gets better, attention will drop but errors will still be pervasive. And with this as backdrop, the fact the marketing has ever even hinted at being general-AI type FSD (the name itself for example) is a scandal. The videos of people riding in the backseat, or any other instance of not monitoring the car fully because they think it can drive itself. I predict there's going to a be an endless stream of accidents from these cars then FSD will be shut down until fully proven, which won't be technically possible for a long long time if ever in our lifetimes.
  - grog454 5y ago
    > But my point was anything less than this is a complete waste of time and useless as a product because until you are completely hands and attention off, you have to be completely hands and attention on/ready...no matter how good or near actual FSD it gets. Agreed. If I got a Telsa tomorrow I wouldn't do so with "FSD". > Because 99.9, or 99.9999, or 99.999999% effective is effectively 0 percent effective given the catastrophic outcome of any error if you aren't devoting full attention to monitoring the car. I'm not sure what effectiveness you're measuring. There will always be fatal accidents with heavy vehicles moving at high speeds. It's more of a regulatory issue where the accident rate of auto-pilot systems is sufficiently lower than human drivers (because I believe it is already lower in many situations, just not sufficiently lower or ubiquitously lower) and we decide its good enough to no longer require monitoring by the driver. Edit: I guess its even more complicated than that. Using hypothetical numbers, if the accident-free rate of a human is 99%, and auto pilot is better at 99.9%, but combined (auto-pilot with human monitoring and rare intervention) is 99.999%, can we justify allowing no monitoring in that situation? Can we expect people to follow the law or will it turn in to more of a speed-limit type grey area.

bagels 5y ago

What is a Serrato? I've not heard of this kind of car. If it's a typo or something, apologies, I don't know what it could be. I'm not trying to be snarky, just genuinely curious what it is?

ImaCake 5y ago
Woops yes a typo on a Kia Cerato. At least that is what it is called here in Australia. https://www.kia.com/au/cars/cerato/features.html https://www.kia.com/au/cars/cerato/features.html
RexM 5y ago
My guess is a Kia Sorento Edit: Ah OP replied. It’s the Kia Forte in the US.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ozfive 5y ago

> Combine all those settings with google maps and it easy for me to see how you could get complacent driving a new car and make mistakes. This along with the fact that in my 2020 Toyota Corolla those features can more than likely get you into an accident is the reason I have them turned off. I don't actually feel safe with them on after experiencing their performance. Also notice a stutter in acceleration due to fuel injection timing and response from the gas pedal that concerns me.