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Oh, this has probably nothing to do with the major energy deficit Europe is now experiencing. Sorry for the sarcasm, but people living here without a secondary

by kebman 5y ago

Oh, this has probably nothing to do with the major energy deficit Europe is now experiencing. Sorry for the sarcasm, but people living here without a secondary source of heat are suffering ice cold houses because they have to choose between heat or food. The deficit has lead to record prices here in Norway, in the middle of winter, because power for 5 mill people is almost completely drained in order to meet the demand of 450 million EU citizens. It's... I have no words. Guess it's great all these power companies are getting rich.

loeg 5y ago
Norwegian electricity appears to be maybe 1.50 krone per kWh including taxes this winter? Or about 0.17 USD per kWh? That’s not especially high, although it looks to be about double last year.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  > That’s not especially high, although it looks to be about double last year. It's almost as if most people have budgets that can't so easily handle a doubling of their bills.
  - kebman 5y ago
    Yeah, imagine that! Thing is, Norway used to have some of the cheapest electricity in Europe, due to population centres being situated right next to a lot of waterfalls. It's still some of the cheapest and most "green" to produce. Add to this that due to power and building policies, i.e. politics, most people use electricity for heating over here (yes, in Arctic Norway...). On top of that heating with wood stoves, or even oil, is highly disincentivized these days. (Also coal isn't a thing in Norway.) For most Norwegians, the electricity has been considered "ours" and indeed it was mostly state run until the general privatization that started around and after the 90's. So for that reason most people didn't consider it risky to have electricity-only heating in their houses. I bet a lot of people regret that decision today, though. For the same reason, the newly built cables made to ensure power export to the EU are extremely unpopular over here, as it's hurting people's income directly through electricity bills being doubled overnight. Most people consider it yet another appeasement to the EU, despite Norwegians having voted against joining it twice.
  - loeg 5y ago
    It really depends on how significant the bill was before. Just for example, electricity is about 3% of my monthly mortgage. If it doubled, it would not substantially impact my budget.
- lucb1e 5y ago
  That's less than half of what I pay in Germany, are you sure that figure includes taxes and other fees levied on the end consumer? It sounds extremely cheap. The only other reference I have is the Netherlands which is a bit cheaper but not much. Just the pure kWh cost here is like upper 20s eurocents per kWh, plus about 10 euros per month fixed fee for metering and stuff (average household will consume a few hundred kWh per month, let's say 200, so ten euros adds about 20% to the price). Total cost per kWh for me personally is .33€/kWh or, to put it in comparable units, 3.3 NOK.
  - loeg 5y ago
    Germany has insanely high energy prices; it’s not a great point of comparison. In contrast, Norway is (was) a net exporter of cheap hydro power.
- kebman 5y ago
  Not even close. I pay almost 4 kroner per kWh this month. Granted it varies a bit depending on the deal you've got. Mine's a monthly price. Some have hourly spot price, and some have a locked-in price.
  - loeg 5y ago
    Thanks. That’s like $0.45/kWh for US readers (very high, approximately the same as what Hawaiians pay for diesel electricity).
    - kebman 5y ago
      That's pretty high. OTOH I bet Hawaiians don't need as much heating during the winter. Most homes in Norway are electricity heating only, due to the building policies of the last 50 or so years, which makes the individual bills pretty insane at the moment.
fulafel 5y ago
Sounds concerning that the famously good social safety net there is not protecting people from starving and freezing, is heating not covered by welfare programs?

by kebman 5y ago

loeg 5y ago

Norwegian electricity appears to be maybe 1.50 krone per kWh including taxes this winter? Or about 0.17 USD per kWh? That’s not especially high, although it looks to be about double last year.

tsimionescu 5y ago
> That’s not especially high, although it looks to be about double last year. It's almost as if most people have budgets that can't so easily handle a doubling of their bills.
- kebman 5y ago
  Yeah, imagine that! Thing is, Norway used to have some of the cheapest electricity in Europe, due to population centres being situated right next to a lot of waterfalls. It's still some of the cheapest and most "green" to produce. Add to this that due to power and building policies, i.e. politics, most people use electricity for heating over here (yes, in Arctic Norway...). On top of that heating with wood stoves, or even oil, is highly disincentivized these days. (Also coal isn't a thing in Norway.) For most Norwegians, the electricity has been considered "ours" and indeed it was mostly state run until the general privatization that started around and after the 90's. So for that reason most people didn't consider it risky to have electricity-only heating in their houses. I bet a lot of people regret that decision today, though. For the same reason, the newly built cables made to ensure power export to the EU are extremely unpopular over here, as it's hurting people's income directly through electricity bills being doubled overnight. Most people consider it yet another appeasement to the EU, despite Norwegians having voted against joining it twice.
- loeg 5y ago
  It really depends on how significant the bill was before. Just for example, electricity is about 3% of my monthly mortgage. If it doubled, it would not substantially impact my budget.
lucb1e 5y ago
That's less than half of what I pay in Germany, are you sure that figure includes taxes and other fees levied on the end consumer? It sounds extremely cheap. The only other reference I have is the Netherlands which is a bit cheaper but not much. Just the pure kWh cost here is like upper 20s eurocents per kWh, plus about 10 euros per month fixed fee for metering and stuff (average household will consume a few hundred kWh per month, let's say 200, so ten euros adds about 20% to the price). Total cost per kWh for me personally is .33€/kWh or, to put it in comparable units, 3.3 NOK.
- loeg 5y ago
  Germany has insanely high energy prices; it’s not a great point of comparison. In contrast, Norway is (was) a net exporter of cheap hydro power.
kebman 5y ago
Not even close. I pay almost 4 kroner per kWh this month. Granted it varies a bit depending on the deal you've got. Mine's a monthly price. Some have hourly spot price, and some have a locked-in price.
- loeg 5y ago
  Thanks. That’s like $0.45/kWh for US readers (very high, approximately the same as what Hawaiians pay for diesel electricity).
  - kebman 5y ago
    That's pretty high. OTOH I bet Hawaiians don't need as much heating during the winter. Most homes in Norway are electricity heating only, due to the building policies of the last 50 or so years, which makes the individual bills pretty insane at the moment.

fulafel 5y ago

Sounds concerning that the famously good social safety net there is not protecting people from starving and freezing, is heating not covered by welfare programs?