4 ms·

Call it a solution in search of a problem. The best fuel cells today reach about 50% round trip efficiency. That's even a high estimate. That by physics defines

Call it a solution in search of a problem. The best fuel cells today reach about 50% round trip efficiency. That's even a high estimate. That by physics defines the price difference between where you buy low and sell high. Without even counting the hydrogen storage, fuel cell itself and everything needed to make it function. That number also defines the arbitrage marginal any other solution has against hydrogen. Be it batteries, over built renewables or geographically coupled networks. Hydrogen as a feedstock for industry?? Definitely. Hydrogen for airplanes? Likely synthetic hydrocarbons but we will see, the hydrogen has to come from somewhere. Same with long distance ocean transport. Emergency reserve of power for a nation state? Just use fossil fuels.

user_7832 5y ago
Yeah I agree with what you say (especially your last part), that its use is likely to be much more for some industries than others; for eg. for Battery EVs particularly outside North America iirc a much smaller battery can do 95% of trips, so hydrogen makes very little sense for a family car. Though the person I was replying to was more pessimistic in general.
michaelt 5y ago
Well, Europe needs some way to store renewable energy in the summer for use in the winter. Especially if they plan to move all transport and heating off hydrocarbons, without using nuclear. And storing energy during summer for use in winter needs a battery 100x larger than storing it in the day for use at night. I don't know what solution our leaders have in mind for this - but I can imagine the costs of gas and battery storage scale differently.
_hypx 5y ago
The best fuel cells already reach >70% efficiency.
iso1210 5y ago
You need a large amount of electricity for a short term event - say a festival or a building site. You wheel in a hydrogen generator, powered by hydrogen from renewable electrolysis, job done.

user_7832 5y ago

Yeah I agree with what you say (especially your last part), that its use is likely to be much more for some industries than others; for eg. for Battery EVs particularly outside North America iirc a much smaller battery can do 95% of trips, so hydrogen makes very little sense for a family car. Though the person I was replying to was more pessimistic in general.

michaelt 5y ago

Well, Europe needs some way to store renewable energy in the summer for use in the winter. Especially if they plan to move all transport and heating off hydrocarbons, without using nuclear. And storing energy during summer for use in winter needs a battery 100x larger than storing it in the day for use at night. I don't know what solution our leaders have in mind for this - but I can imagine the costs of gas and battery storage scale differently.

_hypx 5y ago

The best fuel cells already reach >70% efficiency.

iso1210 5y ago

You need a large amount of electricity for a short term event - say a festival or a building site. You wheel in a hydrogen generator, powered by hydrogen from renewable electrolysis, job done.