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in france gov passed a law that will give a bad grade to gas heated houses (if the grade is bad you cant rent your house) and a good one to electricity. oh and

in france gov passed a law that will give a bad grade to gas heated houses (if the grade is bad you cant rent your house) and a good one to electricity. oh and because of europe we import electricity from germany that is burning coal for it. we are really in the middle of a green idiocracy

akmarinov 5y ago
There was a EU program 3 years ago where it covered 30% of the cost to install a gas heater at your house, so that you’d be more environmentally friendly ffs
scrollaway 5y ago
This is misinformation in both paragraphs. The “bad grade” takes a lot into account and between all the exceptions it is primarily aimed at new constructions. As for your second paragraph, I have no idea what you’re smoking. We’re Europe’s largest exporter of electricity, thanks to our nuclear power.
- retinaros 5y ago
  before shouting misinformation you might want to inform yourself first paragraph I never said having gas was exclusive of getting a bad grade. however gas is now considered a bad energy and will reduce your grade. and it is one of the key factors. when your investment is six digits or more and a stupid law destroy it you know it. and no it is not for new constructions. in paris a huge chunk of the old apartments have a bad grade. people won t be allowed to put their apt for rent on the market, they will sell, which will reduce the nbr of apartment available and increase rent prices. second paragraph: you should look at how electricity works. it is a european market not a french one. per wikipedia « In 2020, France retains its position as the leading exporter in Europe with a total exporter of 43.2 TWh, down by around 13 TWh compared to 2019; commercial export volumes decreased by 7% to 77.8 TWh, while import volumes increased by 22% to 34.6 TWh. The balance of trade remained an exporter every month except September, which is usually a very exporting month; this anomaly is explained in particular by the sharp drop in the availability of nuclear power plants« and it was same for 2021
  - kergonath 5y ago
    How do you square this: > France retains its position as the leading exporter in Europe with a total exporter of 43.2 TWh with this: > because of europe we import electricity from germany that is burning coal for it ? If you are such a keen observer on the electricity market, then surely you know that France is always importing from somewhere, and as its biggest neighbours, it is logical to see Germany there? There was indeed some bad timing with the maintenance of some of the reactors. It is not the decision of the government, but if the operator (EDF) and the regulator (ASN). And the EU has fuck all to do with it.
    - retinaros 5y ago
      we do import electricty and 22% more in 2020 ,a trend that continued this year. and we import from germany that is burning coal. so I dont see what you missed here. our electricity is not green because we import german coal based electricity that is a fact. i know that france export some. but you know trade also means importing for different reasons like price for instance? and europe has to do with it because in france prices for electricity are not related to our infrastructure and us being fully nuclear but dictated by the european comission. you re welcome https://ec.europa.eu/energy/topics/markets-and-consumers/EU-energy-prices_en https://ec.europa.eu/energy/topics/markets-and-consumers/EU-...
      - kergonath 5y ago
        > but you know trade also means importing for different reasons like price for instance? Price has no first-order effect on electricity imports. We just import what we need, otherwise we have a black out. We cannot “not import” when production is below demand and we cannot “over import” when price is low because we don’t have any meaningful storage. > and europe has to do with it because in france prices for electricity are not related to our infrastructure and us being fully nuclear but dictated by the european comission. France has never been fully nuclear. Some EU rules are bonkers and obviously there because of the agenda of some vehemently anti-nuclear countries, sure. But a lot of the stupidity also comes from the French government (see ARENH). Still, as I mentioned, price is not directly related to imports. Higher prices actually result in some industry stopping some plants, and a reduction of both use and imports.
- fy20 5y ago
  If they want to go green, why are they even allowing new homes to be heated by burning fossil fuels? Especially France where you have electricity with such a low CO2/kWh. In Lithuania you can no longer build new homes heated by gas. All new homes have to be classed as a zero energy building, heated by renewal sources, which natural gas from Russia is not. If it works there, it can work everywhere else in Europe too.
- freeflight 5y ago
  > We’re Europe’s largest exporter of electricity, thanks to our nuclear power. In 2020, it was Germany who was the largest electricity exporter on the planet [0], must be thanks to our nuclear power? [0] https://www.worldstopexports.com/electricity-exports-country/ https://www.worldstopexports.com/electricity-exports-country...
  - scrollaway 5y ago
    This is by value. Please use some relevant stats. https://yearbook.enerdata.net/electricity/electricity-balance-trade.html https://yearbook.enerdata.net/electricity/electricity-balanc... https://yearbook.enerdata.net/electricity/world-electricity-production-statistics.html https://yearbook.enerdata.net/electricity/world-electricity-... Additionally: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-fossil-fuels https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-fossil-fuels
    - freeflight 5y ago
      > We’re Europe’s largest exporter of electricity, thanks to our nuclear power. None of your relevant stats actually show that, France only shows up in total production, and there it ranks lower than Germany. It's also a bit odd to now move the goalpost to fossil fuels, when your original point was about electricity exports, and how France can allegedly only export so much due to nuclear power. But over the years France has been constantly trading places with Germany for top electricity exporter on the planet due to Germany's huge renewable sector. A renewable sector that has the advantage of not having massive long-term costs associated with it, most of which are not covered to this day [0]; > France, which operates Europe’s largest fleet of nuclear plants, is heavily underfunded. It has earmarked assets only worth 23 billion euros, less than a third of 74.1 billion euros in expected costs. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-nuclear-idUKKCN0VP2KN https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-nuclear-idUKKCN0VP...
      - scrollaway 5y ago
        Quoting the original post I was replying to: "we import electricity from germany that is burning coal for it" Reality: We're a top exporter of electricity (I'll give you that we're not THE top exporter all the time), and Germany's exports are thanks to its "huge renewable sector" (quoting you). There are no goalposts to move. This is just a bunch of nonsense. People who want to complain can use whatever stats and values they want to make their point, I guess. retinaros' other posts tells me I should just have flagged and moved on from the beginning, but that leaves the risk of misinformation spreading anyway...
floatboth 5y ago
Isn't the vast majority of electricity in France coming from French nuclear power plants?
kergonath 5y ago
> oh and because of europe we import electricity from germany that is burning coal for it This is a gross over-simplification. Most European countries are both importers and exporters at any point in time, but France is a notable net exporter, and actually stabilises the German grid. The French government is inconsistent and unbelievably short-sighted, but not because it wants more electric heating. We need to get rid of gas as soon as possible for any uses that does not absolutely require it. Electricity and heat pumps are safer and better for domestic uses.
- retinaros 5y ago
  gas is owned by russia and now thanks to biden germany. of course the french government wants gas to go away and electricity to be seen as green as we dont have any... why do you think germany pushes for labelling gas as green . net exporter or no as long as france imports electricity we shouldnt be able to say it is green and push people to move away from gas. especially when we see our nuclear reactors aging and being phased out. it is not overly simplified its just simple. now that russia push for gas all western media (beside germany that broke a deal with them) see it as evil. i remember not that long ago a nobel prize winning american president praising himself and being praised by journalists for pushing gas. I guess it,just proves energy,is political first
  - kergonath 5y ago
    > why do you think germany pushes for labelling gas as green What makes you think I don’t know? ;) > as long as france imports electricity we shouldnt be able to say it is green Sure, the current system of certificates is a complete joke and utterly unfit for purpose (you can sell “green electricity” in the middle of winter if you also buy a document showing that the same amount was produced last summer in any other EU country). Under the current system it is mostly irrelevant because certificates are cheap. Hopefully the rules will be tightened in the next couple of months and then the green labelling will be a bit more meaningful (and electricity produced from coal in September won’t be “green” anymore). > especially when we see our nuclear reactors aging and being phased out. I think the French government realised at some point the shitshow it would be. They started walking back earlier promises about plant closures and words I’ve heard say that the life extensions won’t be a political problem. Now, new builds will be the problem of the next government. Please vote responsibly…

akmarinov 5y ago

There was a EU program 3 years ago where it covered 30% of the cost to install a gas heater at your house, so that you’d be more environmentally friendly ffs

scrollaway 5y ago

This is misinformation in both paragraphs. The “bad grade” takes a lot into account and between all the exceptions it is primarily aimed at new constructions. As for your second paragraph, I have no idea what you’re smoking. We’re Europe’s largest exporter of electricity, thanks to our nuclear power.

retinaros 5y ago
before shouting misinformation you might want to inform yourself first paragraph I never said having gas was exclusive of getting a bad grade. however gas is now considered a bad energy and will reduce your grade. and it is one of the key factors. when your investment is six digits or more and a stupid law destroy it you know it. and no it is not for new constructions. in paris a huge chunk of the old apartments have a bad grade. people won t be allowed to put their apt for rent on the market, they will sell, which will reduce the nbr of apartment available and increase rent prices. second paragraph: you should look at how electricity works. it is a european market not a french one. per wikipedia « In 2020, France retains its position as the leading exporter in Europe with a total exporter of 43.2 TWh, down by around 13 TWh compared to 2019; commercial export volumes decreased by 7% to 77.8 TWh, while import volumes increased by 22% to 34.6 TWh. The balance of trade remained an exporter every month except September, which is usually a very exporting month; this anomaly is explained in particular by the sharp drop in the availability of nuclear power plants« and it was same for 2021
- kergonath 5y ago
  How do you square this: > France retains its position as the leading exporter in Europe with a total exporter of 43.2 TWh with this: > because of europe we import electricity from germany that is burning coal for it ? If you are such a keen observer on the electricity market, then surely you know that France is always importing from somewhere, and as its biggest neighbours, it is logical to see Germany there? There was indeed some bad timing with the maintenance of some of the reactors. It is not the decision of the government, but if the operator (EDF) and the regulator (ASN). And the EU has fuck all to do with it.
  - retinaros 5y ago
    we do import electricty and 22% more in 2020 ,a trend that continued this year. and we import from germany that is burning coal. so I dont see what you missed here. our electricity is not green because we import german coal based electricity that is a fact. i know that france export some. but you know trade also means importing for different reasons like price for instance? and europe has to do with it because in france prices for electricity are not related to our infrastructure and us being fully nuclear but dictated by the european comission. you re welcome https://ec.europa.eu/energy/topics/markets-and-consumers/EU-energy-prices_en https://ec.europa.eu/energy/topics/markets-and-consumers/EU-...
    - kergonath 5y ago
      > but you know trade also means importing for different reasons like price for instance? Price has no first-order effect on electricity imports. We just import what we need, otherwise we have a black out. We cannot “not import” when production is below demand and we cannot “over import” when price is low because we don’t have any meaningful storage. > and europe has to do with it because in france prices for electricity are not related to our infrastructure and us being fully nuclear but dictated by the european comission. France has never been fully nuclear. Some EU rules are bonkers and obviously there because of the agenda of some vehemently anti-nuclear countries, sure. But a lot of the stupidity also comes from the French government (see ARENH). Still, as I mentioned, price is not directly related to imports. Higher prices actually result in some industry stopping some plants, and a reduction of both use and imports.
fy20 5y ago
If they want to go green, why are they even allowing new homes to be heated by burning fossil fuels? Especially France where you have electricity with such a low CO2/kWh. In Lithuania you can no longer build new homes heated by gas. All new homes have to be classed as a zero energy building, heated by renewal sources, which natural gas from Russia is not. If it works there, it can work everywhere else in Europe too.
freeflight 5y ago
> We’re Europe’s largest exporter of electricity, thanks to our nuclear power. In 2020, it was Germany who was the largest electricity exporter on the planet [0], must be thanks to our nuclear power? [0] https://www.worldstopexports.com/electricity-exports-country/ https://www.worldstopexports.com/electricity-exports-country...
- scrollaway 5y ago
  This is by value. Please use some relevant stats. https://yearbook.enerdata.net/electricity/electricity-balance-trade.html https://yearbook.enerdata.net/electricity/electricity-balanc... https://yearbook.enerdata.net/electricity/world-electricity-production-statistics.html https://yearbook.enerdata.net/electricity/world-electricity-... Additionally: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-fossil-fuels https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-fossil-fuels
  - freeflight 5y ago
    > We’re Europe’s largest exporter of electricity, thanks to our nuclear power. None of your relevant stats actually show that, France only shows up in total production, and there it ranks lower than Germany. It's also a bit odd to now move the goalpost to fossil fuels, when your original point was about electricity exports, and how France can allegedly only export so much due to nuclear power. But over the years France has been constantly trading places with Germany for top electricity exporter on the planet due to Germany's huge renewable sector. A renewable sector that has the advantage of not having massive long-term costs associated with it, most of which are not covered to this day [0]; > France, which operates Europe’s largest fleet of nuclear plants, is heavily underfunded. It has earmarked assets only worth 23 billion euros, less than a third of 74.1 billion euros in expected costs. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-nuclear-idUKKCN0VP2KN https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-nuclear-idUKKCN0VP...
    - scrollaway 5y ago
      Quoting the original post I was replying to: "we import electricity from germany that is burning coal for it" Reality: We're a top exporter of electricity (I'll give you that we're not THE top exporter all the time), and Germany's exports are thanks to its "huge renewable sector" (quoting you). There are no goalposts to move. This is just a bunch of nonsense. People who want to complain can use whatever stats and values they want to make their point, I guess. retinaros' other posts tells me I should just have flagged and moved on from the beginning, but that leaves the risk of misinformation spreading anyway...

floatboth 5y ago

Isn't the vast majority of electricity in France coming from French nuclear power plants?

kergonath 5y ago

> oh and because of europe we import electricity from germany that is burning coal for it This is a gross over-simplification. Most European countries are both importers and exporters at any point in time, but France is a notable net exporter, and actually stabilises the German grid. The French government is inconsistent and unbelievably short-sighted, but not because it wants more electric heating. We need to get rid of gas as soon as possible for any uses that does not absolutely require it. Electricity and heat pumps are safer and better for domestic uses.

retinaros 5y ago
gas is owned by russia and now thanks to biden germany. of course the french government wants gas to go away and electricity to be seen as green as we dont have any... why do you think germany pushes for labelling gas as green . net exporter or no as long as france imports electricity we shouldnt be able to say it is green and push people to move away from gas. especially when we see our nuclear reactors aging and being phased out. it is not overly simplified its just simple. now that russia push for gas all western media (beside germany that broke a deal with them) see it as evil. i remember not that long ago a nobel prize winning american president praising himself and being praised by journalists for pushing gas. I guess it,just proves energy,is political first
- kergonath 5y ago
  > why do you think germany pushes for labelling gas as green What makes you think I don’t know? ;) > as long as france imports electricity we shouldnt be able to say it is green Sure, the current system of certificates is a complete joke and utterly unfit for purpose (you can sell “green electricity” in the middle of winter if you also buy a document showing that the same amount was produced last summer in any other EU country). Under the current system it is mostly irrelevant because certificates are cheap. Hopefully the rules will be tightened in the next couple of months and then the green labelling will be a bit more meaningful (and electricity produced from coal in September won’t be “green” anymore). > especially when we see our nuclear reactors aging and being phased out. I think the French government realised at some point the shitshow it would be. They started walking back earlier promises about plant closures and words I’ve heard say that the life extensions won’t be a political problem. Now, new builds will be the problem of the next government. Please vote responsibly…