4 ms·

I’m not a pilot either but I am shocked that there’s not some standard “reset” procedure so that each flight starts with the plane in a consistent clean slate.

I’m not a pilot either but I am shocked that there’s not some standard “reset” procedure so that each flight starts with the plane in a consistent clean slate. It seems bizarre for any process to rely on the previous flight coincidentally leaving the plane in a certain state.

op00to 5y ago
It doesn’t. The pilots didn’t do their preflight checklist which would have caught a poorly set up flight computer.
- atonse 5y ago
  Then I do fully support firing them. (If they didn’t follow the checklist) At first I saw they might have been fired and thought damn that is strict.
  - JimBlackwood 5y ago
    They are responsible for flying a plane full of passengers. Strict would be fair.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  Right, but what I mean is that it shouldn’t be possible to skip those steps and have things coincidentally work because of the state the plane was left in. I’m not a pilot or even much of an aviation geek, so maybe I’m misunderstanding the description of this incident, but it sounds to me like this crew did what they always do, and that normally works fine, but this time it didn’t.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - nilsbunger 5y ago
    There isn't much in these planes that works "coincidentally" because of a previous flight -- almost all important state has to be reconfigured each flight. The article is over-indexing on the flight director's altitude setting. These guys missed many basic things, like rotating at V1 speed and in general monitoring the plane's situation.
    - aaronmdjones 5y ago
      You rotate at Vr, not V1. Vr is almost always close to V1, though. The 777's flight computer can calculate all 3 (V1, Vr, V2) for you, put them on the speed tape (on the left of the Primary Flight Display), and audibly call them out.
      - nilsbunger 5y ago
        Doh you're right! I was still closer than these pilots though :)
  - op00to 5y ago
    There’s a lot that goes into deciding how and what tasks to do, how quickly, at what points in flight, and those numbers change as winds, weather, traffic, and fuel burn changes. Each flight, the pilots need to basically take all the factors going into the flight (# passengers, bags, cargo weight, routing, taxi time, and so on) to figure out how much fuel to use, what particular climb profile they’ll use, and a bunch more. It makes sense that there’d be a “clean cockpit” magic button to push, but not only would the magic button need to be tested in every aspect of flight, in every configuration, in every combination of working and broken sensors… but airplanes are flippin’ complex, and flying modern airliners as part of an airline is even more complex.
crooked-v 5y ago
That's what pre-flight checklists are for. Even a "simple" one for a small plane like a Cessna 172 comprehensively covers setting or resetting literally every control in the plane.
manigandham 5y ago
It doesn't matter what the previous crew configured, because you reconfigure for the conditions and scenario you're about to fly. And this is all part of the preflight checklist. Even if something was missed, it's very strange to not realize that the plane is still on the ground when you can see the end of the runway, despite what the computers are saying. Usually pilots have trouble trusting the instruments over their own senses, but in this case it's like the opposite.
- cm2187 5y ago
  Is there a reason for these checklists not to be automated? I would expect the pilot to set the plane in takeoff mode with destination and weight (if the plane cannot measure the weight itself) and the plane to run the checklist itself, calculate v1 and v2, check there is enough fuel to the destination, check all the control surface positions, etc.
  - aaronmdjones 5y ago
    The Boeing 777 (the plane in this incident) does have an integrated electronic checklist, which can automatically tick off items that are already completed, but the pilots still have to actually use it. Nothing can help you when you refuse to operate the plane correctly.

op00to 5y ago

It doesn’t. The pilots didn’t do their preflight checklist which would have caught a poorly set up flight computer.

atonse 5y ago
Then I do fully support firing them. (If they didn’t follow the checklist) At first I saw they might have been fired and thought damn that is strict.
- JimBlackwood 5y ago
  They are responsible for flying a plane full of passengers. Strict would be fair.
tshaddox 5y ago
Right, but what I mean is that it shouldn’t be possible to skip those steps and have things coincidentally work because of the state the plane was left in. I’m not a pilot or even much of an aviation geek, so maybe I’m misunderstanding the description of this incident, but it sounds to me like this crew did what they always do, and that normally works fine, but this time it didn’t.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- nilsbunger 5y ago
  There isn't much in these planes that works "coincidentally" because of a previous flight -- almost all important state has to be reconfigured each flight. The article is over-indexing on the flight director's altitude setting. These guys missed many basic things, like rotating at V1 speed and in general monitoring the plane's situation.
  - aaronmdjones 5y ago
    You rotate at Vr, not V1. Vr is almost always close to V1, though. The 777's flight computer can calculate all 3 (V1, Vr, V2) for you, put them on the speed tape (on the left of the Primary Flight Display), and audibly call them out.
    - nilsbunger 5y ago
      Doh you're right! I was still closer than these pilots though :)
- op00to 5y ago
  There’s a lot that goes into deciding how and what tasks to do, how quickly, at what points in flight, and those numbers change as winds, weather, traffic, and fuel burn changes. Each flight, the pilots need to basically take all the factors going into the flight (# passengers, bags, cargo weight, routing, taxi time, and so on) to figure out how much fuel to use, what particular climb profile they’ll use, and a bunch more. It makes sense that there’d be a “clean cockpit” magic button to push, but not only would the magic button need to be tested in every aspect of flight, in every configuration, in every combination of working and broken sensors… but airplanes are flippin’ complex, and flying modern airliners as part of an airline is even more complex.

crooked-v 5y ago

That's what pre-flight checklists are for. Even a "simple" one for a small plane like a Cessna 172 comprehensively covers setting or resetting literally every control in the plane.

manigandham 5y ago

It doesn't matter what the previous crew configured, because you reconfigure for the conditions and scenario you're about to fly. And this is all part of the preflight checklist. Even if something was missed, it's very strange to not realize that the plane is still on the ground when you can see the end of the runway, despite what the computers are saying. Usually pilots have trouble trusting the instruments over their own senses, but in this case it's like the opposite.

cm2187 5y ago
Is there a reason for these checklists not to be automated? I would expect the pilot to set the plane in takeoff mode with destination and weight (if the plane cannot measure the weight itself) and the plane to run the checklist itself, calculate v1 and v2, check there is enough fuel to the destination, check all the control surface positions, etc.
- aaronmdjones 5y ago
  The Boeing 777 (the plane in this incident) does have an integrated electronic checklist, which can automatically tick off items that are already completed, but the pilots still have to actually use it. Nothing can help you when you refuse to operate the plane correctly.