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This seems a very important question, and I'm not finding answers to it satisfactory. To elaborate, why isn't an autopilot "aware" of whether the aircraft is t

This seems a very important question, and I'm not finding answers to it satisfactory. To elaborate, why isn't an autopilot "aware" of whether the aircraft is taking-off/landing or in-flight? It seems completely mad that an automated flying mode could be engaged in such an obviously suicidal way on a modern bulk carrier aircraft, without so much as a blaring warning and red flashing lights.

krisoft 5y ago
> It seems completely mad that an automated flying mode could be engaged in such an obviously suicidal way on a modern bulk carrier aircraft, without so much as a blaring warning and red flashing lights. You are assuming that there weren't blaring warnings and red flashing lights. Probably there were many. > To elaborate, why isn't an autopilot "aware" of whether the aircraft is taking-off/landing or in-flight? Autopilots are much simpler systems. I don't know how much you know about them, but people in the general public believe they are some AI which flies the airplane from A to B. In reality they have much more common with a thermostat than an AI. You set a target heading and the plane will bank to match it. You set a target height and the plane will pitch to match it. Yes yes, they have many modes, and some modes can do much more complicated things than these, but it is not there to replace the pilot. It is a tool to alleviate dead simple piloting tasks so the pilots fatigue less on long flights. Just as an example how simple stupid they are: You can command the autopilot to climb, and if you don't adjust the throttle appropriately (either manually, or by enabling the autopilot to adjust it) then the plane will use up all the airspeed during the climb and the autopilot will happily fly it into a stall. Also just a general rule about aviation incidents/accidents: It is a good idea to wait for a proper investigation report before running far with all kind of assumptions about what happened, and therefore what you think should be changed.
- vultour 5y ago
  You're talking about a GA aircraft autopilot, modern airliners go way beyond that. I don't know about the 777 but I believe all newer Boeings are FBW. Airbus has been FBW since forever. I'm mostly familiar with the A320 but that things is pretty much impossible to stall under normal operation no matter how much you misconfigure the autopilot.
  - krisoft 5y ago
    No I am not only talking about GA aircraft. What do you think is going to happen if you turn off the autothrottle, manually set the throttles to idle and set the AFDS to vertical speed mode with a positive climb rate? Here[1] is an NTSB report detailing how the AFDS and the A/T work together in a Boeing 777. They enumerate several different combinations in which the autothrottle does not provide stall protection. It also calls out as contributing factor the crew’s mistaken belief that the airplane is pretty much impossible to stall. 1: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR1401.pdf https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/...
    - vultour 5y ago
      As I said, I was talking about the A320. You get alpha floor protection which triggers TOGA thrust even with the autothrottle disabled. I would have hoped newer Boeings offered similar protections, the 737 always struck me as being super "analog" compared to the A320.

krisoft 5y ago

> It seems completely mad that an automated flying mode could be engaged in such an obviously suicidal way on a modern bulk carrier aircraft, without so much as a blaring warning and red flashing lights. You are assuming that there weren't blaring warnings and red flashing lights. Probably there were many. > To elaborate, why isn't an autopilot "aware" of whether the aircraft is taking-off/landing or in-flight? Autopilots are much simpler systems. I don't know how much you know about them, but people in the general public believe they are some AI which flies the airplane from A to B. In reality they have much more common with a thermostat than an AI. You set a target heading and the plane will bank to match it. You set a target height and the plane will pitch to match it. Yes yes, they have many modes, and some modes can do much more complicated things than these, but it is not there to replace the pilot. It is a tool to alleviate dead simple piloting tasks so the pilots fatigue less on long flights. Just as an example how simple stupid they are: You can command the autopilot to climb, and if you don't adjust the throttle appropriately (either manually, or by enabling the autopilot to adjust it) then the plane will use up all the airspeed during the climb and the autopilot will happily fly it into a stall. Also just a general rule about aviation incidents/accidents: It is a good idea to wait for a proper investigation report before running far with all kind of assumptions about what happened, and therefore what you think should be changed.

vultour 5y ago
You're talking about a GA aircraft autopilot, modern airliners go way beyond that. I don't know about the 777 but I believe all newer Boeings are FBW. Airbus has been FBW since forever. I'm mostly familiar with the A320 but that things is pretty much impossible to stall under normal operation no matter how much you misconfigure the autopilot.
- krisoft 5y ago
  No I am not only talking about GA aircraft. What do you think is going to happen if you turn off the autothrottle, manually set the throttles to idle and set the AFDS to vertical speed mode with a positive climb rate? Here[1] is an NTSB report detailing how the AFDS and the A/T work together in a Boeing 777. They enumerate several different combinations in which the autothrottle does not provide stall protection. It also calls out as contributing factor the crew’s mistaken belief that the airplane is pretty much impossible to stall. 1: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR1401.pdf https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/...
  - vultour 5y ago
    As I said, I was talking about the A320. You get alpha floor protection which triggers TOGA thrust even with the autothrottle disabled. I would have hoped newer Boeings offered similar protections, the 737 always struck me as being super "analog" compared to the A320.