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> nation-states are convenient tools for the capitalist class I hate this kind of Marxist lazy explanations. For Marxists everything happens because of "the ca

> nation-states are convenient tools for the capitalist class I hate this kind of Marxist lazy explanations. For Marxists everything happens because of "the capitalist class". It sounds as lazy, ideological and ignorant as Christians explaining that all evil things happen because Adam and Eve ate an apple. Truth is that the Westphalian sovereignty is actually a precious concept. It implies in itself the right to self determination for the peoples of some place. Yes, I know how much European Imperialism mocked that. But the idea is still there and it was powerful when dismantling the European empires on the 2nd half of the 20th century. Regardless of how much the Marxist arrogance despises them, many classical liberal concepts such as Westphalian sovereignty, rule of the law and open societies are really precious achievements.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> For Marxists everything happens because of "the capitalist class". No, for Marxists in the period of developing capitalism the main driving force was conflict between the capitalist class and the pre-capitalist aristocracy, and after that through the present the main driving force of change is the conflict between the capitalist class and the laboring class. > Truth is that the Westphalian sovereignty is actually a precious concept. “Precious” is subjective; it means nothing without qualifying to whom. > It implies in itself the right to self determination for the peoples of some place. It justifies itself that way, and yet is, in practice, the most formidable barrier to self-determination that exists in the modern world. > Regardless of how much the Marxist arrogance despises them, many classical liberal concepts such as Westphalian sovereignty, rule of the law and open societies are really precious achievements. Marxist theory doesn't despise them so much as despises the quasi-religious end-of-history view of them; classical Marxism views them as important steps of progress that nevertheless aren't the end of progress and must be transcended.
pessimizer 5y ago
> For Marxists everything happens because of "the capitalist class". It sounds as lazy, ideological and ignorant as Christians explaining that all evil things happen because Adam and Eve ate an apple. Are you asking people to debate with your "sounds"? Could you say the same thing about the germ theory of disease? I get that you think Marxists are arrogant, lazy, ideological and ignorant and liberalism is precious, but as an argument it fails to convince.
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dragonwriter 5y ago

> For Marxists everything happens because of "the capitalist class". No, for Marxists in the period of developing capitalism the main driving force was conflict between the capitalist class and the pre-capitalist aristocracy, and after that through the present the main driving force of change is the conflict between the capitalist class and the laboring class. > Truth is that the Westphalian sovereignty is actually a precious concept. “Precious” is subjective; it means nothing without qualifying to whom. > It implies in itself the right to self determination for the peoples of some place. It justifies itself that way, and yet is, in practice, the most formidable barrier to self-determination that exists in the modern world. > Regardless of how much the Marxist arrogance despises them, many classical liberal concepts such as Westphalian sovereignty, rule of the law and open societies are really precious achievements. Marxist theory doesn't despise them so much as despises the quasi-religious end-of-history view of them; classical Marxism views them as important steps of progress that nevertheless aren't the end of progress and must be transcended.

pessimizer 5y ago

> For Marxists everything happens because of "the capitalist class". It sounds as lazy, ideological and ignorant as Christians explaining that all evil things happen because Adam and Eve ate an apple. Are you asking people to debate with your "sounds"? Could you say the same thing about the germ theory of disease? I get that you think Marxists are arrogant, lazy, ideological and ignorant and liberalism is precious, but as an argument it fails to convince.

deleted 5y ago
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