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> It was never about varna and choosing things I have scriptural backing for this. What do you have? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29754255 https://new

> It was never about varna and choosing things I have scriptural backing for this. What do you have? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29754255 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29754255 > The Gotras also include rarer ones like the Shatamarshana that go back to the Suryavamsha or the Solar dynasty LMAO this is why half-baked knowledge of Sanatan Dharma is the worst thing ever. Suryavamsha itself means progeny of Surya. Who is Surya? Surya is the son of Kashyapa. One of the Rishis I mentioned already in the list above. I even mention in my first comment: "There are plenty more (who were descendents of these Rishis who also started their own lineage)." There are close to 3000 such sub-Gotras. All of them trace back to these 7 Saptarishis and 1 other Rishi called Jambu. This makes it 7 primary and 1 secondary Gotra. All lineages post them are derived from these 8. Even Shatamarshana and other lineages (Suryavamshi/Chandravamshi etc) all converge to these 8 Gotras. All the Devatas (Demigods/Dieties) are children of Kashyapa and Aditi. That is why the Devatas are also called "Adityas" because they are all born out of Aditi. Please don't throw around your half-baked knowledge of Sanatan Dharma and further corrupt the Religion. People like you, with horrible interpretations, are the reason we still have so many evil practices that exist in society today. Who just pretend to know everything and misguide the society but in reality have zero knowledge of our scriptures. I have studied it for 15 years now. Don't try to teach me what is in my own scriptures. > Gothra being male reliant is pure patriarchy. I already explained why it is so. This happens in Christianity, Judaism and Islam too. And so does in Sikhism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism etc. The wife lives with her husband. It is very rare to find husband living with wives family and mostly happens in few societies that are Matriarchal since a very long time. > The fact that a mother’s side bride getting married off to a groom from the joint family is common shows that it was a practice that has never had any regard to genetics. LMAO how? Mother's side bride is not of the same Gotra as joint family she is married into. There won't be any genetic issues. > Pretending problems aren’t real just makes them real No where did I pretend problems aren't real. > You can admit the existence of embarrassing prejudices in the society including the Sati system which murdered wives when their husbands died Where did I say I won't admit? > This is pure whitewashing LMAO. Okay. So explaining that the scriptures do not even mention these customs and we should discard them is whitewashing now? I am literally advocating for removing/abolishing these customs/traditions that are not true to Dharma. You are arguing that I should not. Do you want these evil customs to remain?

IndianFisherman 5y ago
Even if there was a Varna system, before it was solidified to maintain the status quo of the Brahmans, why do you say as if it was a good thing? The Varna system is an equally evil practice as it still creates hierarchical structures in the society and worse, it completely disregards dignity of labour. It shouldn't matter what your occupation is, you should have equal dignity in society.
- KrishnaShripad 5y ago
  > The Varna system is an equally evil practice as it still creates hierarchical structures in the society and worse, it completely disregards dignity of labour First read about the Varna System. Or at least watch the videos that I have linked ([1] and [2] — Discourse by Padma Shri Bannanje Govindacharya — was one of the greatest Sanskrit Vidwans of our times) to actually understand what the System was about. There was no hierarchy. The hierarchy came about in Jati/Caste System. Misinformation is worse than ignorance. Misinformation corrodes society. In the Varna System all the Varnas were equally important. Nothing was superior or inferior. All were Moksha adhikaris (or were eligible for Moksha). Even more so Shudras. Because everyone is born a Shudra. Doesn't matter what Varna he adopts later (this process is called Dvija or second birth — where he chooses to become Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya after the Upanayana Ceremony). Do you know the meaning of Shudra in Sanskrit? It is a combination of two words: "Shuk" and "Dra". Shuk means "misery". Dra means "melt". So Shudra is one who melts for others miseries. Shudra is the basic quality that defines a human being (one who melts for others miseries). You cannot be a human being without first being a Shudra. No where in the Dharma Shastras is it written that you have to discriminate against a Shudra. Most of these discriminations stem from medieval practices of Jati/Caste System which go completely against Dharma and should be abolished. To give you few examples: There is a Vedic story (Chandogaya Upanishad) of Satyakama who was raised by his mother Jabali. When he was just 5 years old, he goes to Rishi Haridrumata Gautama asking permission to study the Vedas. The Rishi asks him who is father is. Satyakama wouldn't know the answer and says he'll enquire from his mother about the name of his father as well as his father's Gotra. When he asks his mother Jabali, she says that she worked in multiple homes in her youth and doesn't really know who his father was (or in other words she worked as a prostitute). Satyakama goes back to Rishi Haridrumata Gautama and tells him whatever his mother told him. The Rishi, pleased with the boy's honesty, declares that he has qualities of a Brahmana as he demonstrated that he did not hide his reality. And because of which his quality is that of a Brahmana. So is the true seeker of Brahman/God. Rishi Haridrumata Gautama accepts him as his disciple and imparts Vedic knowledge. To make it even more explicit: All the Vedas were compiled by Krishna Dvaipayana Vyasa (popularly known as Veda Vyasa). Veda Vyasa was born to a Shudra mother (who was co-incidentally a fisherwoman by name of Matsyagandha/Satyavati; saying so because your username says "IndianFisherman"). That itself should make it clear to you that we did not have Caste System but Varna System. There was no hierarchy. This hierarchy came into play only in modern times. If the Compiler of the Vedas was himself born to a Shudra mother where does the question of Shudras being inferior to Brahmins arise from? We all bow to that great Vyasa who gave us the Vedas. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrLtG-iM_e0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrLtG-iM_e0 [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV3v7_y97x0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV3v7_y97x0

IndianFisherman 5y ago

Even if there was a Varna system, before it was solidified to maintain the status quo of the Brahmans, why do you say as if it was a good thing? The Varna system is an equally evil practice as it still creates hierarchical structures in the society and worse, it completely disregards dignity of labour. It shouldn't matter what your occupation is, you should have equal dignity in society.

KrishnaShripad 5y ago
> The Varna system is an equally evil practice as it still creates hierarchical structures in the society and worse, it completely disregards dignity of labour First read about the Varna System. Or at least watch the videos that I have linked ([1] and [2] — Discourse by Padma Shri Bannanje Govindacharya — was one of the greatest Sanskrit Vidwans of our times) to actually understand what the System was about. There was no hierarchy. The hierarchy came about in Jati/Caste System. Misinformation is worse than ignorance. Misinformation corrodes society. In the Varna System all the Varnas were equally important. Nothing was superior or inferior. All were Moksha adhikaris (or were eligible for Moksha). Even more so Shudras. Because everyone is born a Shudra. Doesn't matter what Varna he adopts later (this process is called Dvija or second birth — where he chooses to become Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya after the Upanayana Ceremony). Do you know the meaning of Shudra in Sanskrit? It is a combination of two words: "Shuk" and "Dra". Shuk means "misery". Dra means "melt". So Shudra is one who melts for others miseries. Shudra is the basic quality that defines a human being (one who melts for others miseries). You cannot be a human being without first being a Shudra. No where in the Dharma Shastras is it written that you have to discriminate against a Shudra. Most of these discriminations stem from medieval practices of Jati/Caste System which go completely against Dharma and should be abolished. To give you few examples: There is a Vedic story (Chandogaya Upanishad) of Satyakama who was raised by his mother Jabali. When he was just 5 years old, he goes to Rishi Haridrumata Gautama asking permission to study the Vedas. The Rishi asks him who is father is. Satyakama wouldn't know the answer and says he'll enquire from his mother about the name of his father as well as his father's Gotra. When he asks his mother Jabali, she says that she worked in multiple homes in her youth and doesn't really know who his father was (or in other words she worked as a prostitute). Satyakama goes back to Rishi Haridrumata Gautama and tells him whatever his mother told him. The Rishi, pleased with the boy's honesty, declares that he has qualities of a Brahmana as he demonstrated that he did not hide his reality. And because of which his quality is that of a Brahmana. So is the true seeker of Brahman/God. Rishi Haridrumata Gautama accepts him as his disciple and imparts Vedic knowledge. To make it even more explicit: All the Vedas were compiled by Krishna Dvaipayana Vyasa (popularly known as Veda Vyasa). Veda Vyasa was born to a Shudra mother (who was co-incidentally a fisherwoman by name of Matsyagandha/Satyavati; saying so because your username says "IndianFisherman"). That itself should make it clear to you that we did not have Caste System but Varna System. There was no hierarchy. This hierarchy came into play only in modern times. If the Compiler of the Vedas was himself born to a Shudra mother where does the question of Shudras being inferior to Brahmins arise from? We all bow to that great Vyasa who gave us the Vedas. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrLtG-iM_e0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrLtG-iM_e0 [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV3v7_y97x0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV3v7_y97x0