4 ms·

> just as well citation needed for the full cycle: healthy -> contracted -> transmitted My current understanding is that at least the first step is hindered.

> just as well citation needed for the full cycle: healthy -> contracted -> transmitted My current understanding is that at least the first step is hindered. See e.g. https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiOTAzYzY0NjktMWYwNC00MTc5LWFiNDgtNTZjMGQzNjcxOTM1IiwidCI6IjljZTcwODY5LTYwZGItNDRmZC1hYmU4LWQyNzY3MDc3ZmM4ZiJ9 https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiOTAzYzY0NjktMWYwNC0... shows approximately 4.5x reduction of the chances to contract (and therefore to spread further).

ekianjo 5y ago
you will have to explain how high vaccination countries suddenly get huge outbreaks of infections.
- lostmsu 5y ago
  Will I? Show me the data for high vaccination outbreak size == low vaccination outbreak size. I think your opinion is based on unrelated data.
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    You can't do a comparison like that because there are absolutely no 2 countries like each other and how they count cases is also different so that data does not exist. You can however look at what's happening in a single country despite the vaccination: Portugal, with close to 90% vaccination rate, is getting the highest rates of infection ever as we speak. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/portugal/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/portugal/ For a vaccine that's supposed to slow or stop the spread, sorry but that kind of trend is not very convincing.
    - lostmsu 5y ago
      This argument is scientifically (which you wanted) void: since you are not making a comparison with a low vaccination country, it does not make any sense. Try harder. I'll give you an example: Russia with relatively low vaccination rates has close to the highest number of excess deaths per capita. Portugal you mentioned is not even close. > are absolutely no 2 countries like each other fortunately there are like 200+ of them, so one should be able to see a trend. Even the 50 US states would work. From what I see you are the one not understanding science and ignoring facts here. You just dismissed my first link based on an irrelevant claim that countries with high vaccination rates still have outbreaks (duh).
      - ekianjo 5y ago
        > You just dismissed my first link based on an irrelevant claim that countries with high vaccination rates still have outbreaks (duh). you mentioned the first step is hindered. Which is completely not proven by the fact that countries with high vaccination rates should effectively have a R trending towards zero if the vaccines even worked half as well as they should. Instead you see major outbreaks which completely contradicts the "hindrance" you refer to. > From what I see you are the one not understanding science and ignoring facts here. Ad-hominem attacks won't get you points here.
        lostmsu 5y ago
        You started with an ad-hominem attack. And you just made a new claim with 0 backing in numbers. I don't know if you are arguing in good faith here, but definitely in low quality. Show us the numbers supporting your point. You just implied R is not affected by vaccination status, but you have provided 1 data to back this. Whereas I provided a cumulative of thousands of cases, that directly support my point.
        ekianjo 5y ago
        > You started with an ad-hominem attack. Where? > And you just made a new claim with 0 backing in numbers. which claim?
        lostmsu 5y ago
        > Where? "vaccinated people not understanding the science" > which claim? "the fact that countries with high vaccination rates should effectively have a R trending towards zero if the vaccines even worked half as well as they should" (implying they do not have R trending to 0 vs unvaxxed).

ekianjo 5y ago

you will have to explain how high vaccination countries suddenly get huge outbreaks of infections.

lostmsu 5y ago
Will I? Show me the data for high vaccination outbreak size == low vaccination outbreak size. I think your opinion is based on unrelated data.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  You can't do a comparison like that because there are absolutely no 2 countries like each other and how they count cases is also different so that data does not exist. You can however look at what's happening in a single country despite the vaccination: Portugal, with close to 90% vaccination rate, is getting the highest rates of infection ever as we speak. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/portugal/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/portugal/ For a vaccine that's supposed to slow or stop the spread, sorry but that kind of trend is not very convincing.
  - lostmsu 5y ago
    This argument is scientifically (which you wanted) void: since you are not making a comparison with a low vaccination country, it does not make any sense. Try harder. I'll give you an example: Russia with relatively low vaccination rates has close to the highest number of excess deaths per capita. Portugal you mentioned is not even close. > are absolutely no 2 countries like each other fortunately there are like 200+ of them, so one should be able to see a trend. Even the 50 US states would work. From what I see you are the one not understanding science and ignoring facts here. You just dismissed my first link based on an irrelevant claim that countries with high vaccination rates still have outbreaks (duh).
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      > You just dismissed my first link based on an irrelevant claim that countries with high vaccination rates still have outbreaks (duh). you mentioned the first step is hindered. Which is completely not proven by the fact that countries with high vaccination rates should effectively have a R trending towards zero if the vaccines even worked half as well as they should. Instead you see major outbreaks which completely contradicts the "hindrance" you refer to. > From what I see you are the one not understanding science and ignoring facts here. Ad-hominem attacks won't get you points here.
      - lostmsu 5y ago
        You started with an ad-hominem attack. And you just made a new claim with 0 backing in numbers. I don't know if you are arguing in good faith here, but definitely in low quality. Show us the numbers supporting your point. You just implied R is not affected by vaccination status, but you have provided 1 data to back this. Whereas I provided a cumulative of thousands of cases, that directly support my point.
        ekianjo 5y ago
        > You started with an ad-hominem attack. Where? > And you just made a new claim with 0 backing in numbers. which claim?
        lostmsu 5y ago
        > Where? "vaccinated people not understanding the science" > which claim? "the fact that countries with high vaccination rates should effectively have a R trending towards zero if the vaccines even worked half as well as they should" (implying they do not have R trending to 0 vs unvaxxed).