4 ms·

Violating NAP requires taking some action, you can't just "aggress" by not doing anything.

by hrhrhrhrhr 5y ago

jquery 5y ago
- hrhrhrhrhr 5y ago
  No, NAP is pretty clear. It's just some people treat it as a silver bullet, when it's only a fundamental building block. Libertarians are not against having contractual jurisdictions which would mandate being vaccinated on a certain territory, as long as you can quit that jurisdiction at any time. It's not clear that getting vaccinated would stop you from spreading the virus though.
  - jquery 5y ago
    > as long as you can quit that jurisdiction at any time. Nobody is going door to door and arresting unvaccinated people. It’s not like the anti-choice law in Texas that criminalizes two people working together to stop a woman from being pregnant against her will. You still have your freedom under the NAP. But as soon as you present a threat to infect other people by being unvaccinated, there are reasonable restrictions in place. Edit: I’m seeing replies saying the NAP is strictly about physical violence. To that I ask, are bioweapons fine to use in libertarianland? Can I hold a city hostage with weaponized anthrax because the libertarianism is, at its root, a cover for voting Republican and not a coherent political philosophy?
    - hrhrhrhrhr 5y ago
      NAP is about physical violence. The problem with your way of thinking is that it lets you interpret whatever you feel like as "violence". Should infecting others with a flu also be considered violence? What about blasphemy? What about just being mean? People have very varying opinions on whether spreading COVID should be considered violence, hence contractual jurisdictions.
      - variola 5y ago
        > Should infecting others with a flu also be considered violence? How is it not violence to infect others with a serious disease? It causes bodily harm. It is assault to knowingly expose others to a communicable disease. However, using the flu as an example isn’t very good as spreading the common cold doesn’t carry criminal consequences. If you are referring to Covid as a “flu” then it’s another matter.
        hrhrhrhrhr 5y ago
        If I meant COVID I'd say COVID. When I say flu I mean flu. Why should spreading "flu" not be considered violence? Not deadly enough? Then who is going to decide where is the line drawn? The libertarian answer to protecting yourself from viruses is private discrimination, not redefining NAP however you see fit.
- zo1 5y ago
  The NAP is very basic and fundamental (in stark contrast to all the laws we have on book). And in order to be so and not open to too-much interpretation, it has a very narrow and explicit scope that has emergent properties. If you expand it you're back into "government" and "interpretation" territory and have made the NAP meaningless. Just look at this thread and all the disagreement about vaccine policy; even without the NAP at play and with supposed "social contract" and "laws" and "constitutions" and "UN Declaration of human rights" we still can't agree how to coexist and deal with this pandemic. Meanwhile, the authoritarian CCP/Chinese government is handling it just fine, and probably laughing their asses off right now at the rest of the world's inability to deal with this. The rules are currently stacked in favor of bullies, whether that's an overreaching government like Canada in this case, China and international law that allows it to not be punished for this world-scale disaster, or everyday bullies that are effectively victim-blaming people who are discriminated against because of their medical choices.
MiroF 5y ago
good thing we don't run our society based on the NAP

Violating NAP requires taking some action, you can't just "aggress" by not doing anything.

jquery 5y ago

hrhrhrhrhr 5y ago
No, NAP is pretty clear. It's just some people treat it as a silver bullet, when it's only a fundamental building block. Libertarians are not against having contractual jurisdictions which would mandate being vaccinated on a certain territory, as long as you can quit that jurisdiction at any time. It's not clear that getting vaccinated would stop you from spreading the virus though.
- jquery 5y ago
  > as long as you can quit that jurisdiction at any time. Nobody is going door to door and arresting unvaccinated people. It’s not like the anti-choice law in Texas that criminalizes two people working together to stop a woman from being pregnant against her will. You still have your freedom under the NAP. But as soon as you present a threat to infect other people by being unvaccinated, there are reasonable restrictions in place. Edit: I’m seeing replies saying the NAP is strictly about physical violence. To that I ask, are bioweapons fine to use in libertarianland? Can I hold a city hostage with weaponized anthrax because the libertarianism is, at its root, a cover for voting Republican and not a coherent political philosophy?
  - hrhrhrhrhr 5y ago
    NAP is about physical violence. The problem with your way of thinking is that it lets you interpret whatever you feel like as "violence". Should infecting others with a flu also be considered violence? What about blasphemy? What about just being mean? People have very varying opinions on whether spreading COVID should be considered violence, hence contractual jurisdictions.
    - variola 5y ago
      > Should infecting others with a flu also be considered violence? How is it not violence to infect others with a serious disease? It causes bodily harm. It is assault to knowingly expose others to a communicable disease. However, using the flu as an example isn’t very good as spreading the common cold doesn’t carry criminal consequences. If you are referring to Covid as a “flu” then it’s another matter.
      - hrhrhrhrhr 5y ago
        If I meant COVID I'd say COVID. When I say flu I mean flu. Why should spreading "flu" not be considered violence? Not deadly enough? Then who is going to decide where is the line drawn? The libertarian answer to protecting yourself from viruses is private discrimination, not redefining NAP however you see fit.
zo1 5y ago
The NAP is very basic and fundamental (in stark contrast to all the laws we have on book). And in order to be so and not open to too-much interpretation, it has a very narrow and explicit scope that has emergent properties. If you expand it you're back into "government" and "interpretation" territory and have made the NAP meaningless. Just look at this thread and all the disagreement about vaccine policy; even without the NAP at play and with supposed "social contract" and "laws" and "constitutions" and "UN Declaration of human rights" we still can't agree how to coexist and deal with this pandemic. Meanwhile, the authoritarian CCP/Chinese government is handling it just fine, and probably laughing their asses off right now at the rest of the world's inability to deal with this. The rules are currently stacked in favor of bullies, whether that's an overreaching government like Canada in this case, China and international law that allows it to not be punished for this world-scale disaster, or everyday bullies that are effectively victim-blaming people who are discriminated against because of their medical choices.

MiroF 5y ago

good thing we don't run our society based on the NAP