8 ms·

apartheid was a racist policy that discriminated against people based on their skin color… you’re comparing this to mandating a vaccine that dramatically reduce

apartheid was a racist policy that discriminated against people based on their skin color… you’re comparing this to mandating a vaccine that dramatically reduces the hospitalization rate during an international pandemic that has killed more than 5 million people in 2 years

peteradio 5y ago
> dramatically reduces the hospitalization rate When administered to the at risk population. When required for young, hospitalization system impact would be marginal.
- middleclick 5y ago
  Not correct. Here is the official source: https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2021-12-31-Current-COVID-19-Risk-in-Ontario-by-Vaccination-Status.png https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2... Please cite your sources.
  - torstenvl 5y ago
    Your link does not address age-specific hospitalization effects of vaccination. As a result, it is non-responsive to the GP's position. If you posted the wrong link and meant to post one that addresses GP's point of view, would you mind fixing the link? On the other hand, on the off chance it was intentional, please try to engage with more honesty and more in good faith.
    - middleclick 5y ago
      - torstenvl 5y ago
        middleclick 5y ago
        torstenvl 5y ago
        I'm feeling more and more confident that your comments are intentionally snide and personal, so I'm going to bow out. Happy New Year to you and I hope 2022 brings you much joy and happiness.
        dang 5y ago
        Please do not propagate flamewars on HN. We don't want this kind of thing here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        middleclick 5y ago
        dang 5y ago
        Please do not propagate flamewars on HN. We don't want this kind of thing here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - peteradio 5y ago
    That is all people lumped together. Like I said remove "at-risk".
    - middleclick 5y ago
      Cool. https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-s... Which groups are not "at-risk" here? What age? Because it seems like there is a significant % of the population in groups other than 80+ that are in the hospital.
      - peteradio 5y ago
        Under 50 has 20% of ICU cases (how many are incidental and without comorbidity?).
        middleclick 5y ago
        You are the one who made the claim that age is relevant to this when it is not as if the ICUs are full, it impacts everyone. So maybe find the source and share it here since you are the one who made the argument? Burden of proof is on you, not me.
        peteradio 5y ago
        middleclick 5y ago
        peteradio 5y ago
FourthProtocol 5y ago
I've been vaccinated 3 times. But. 5m out of 7 billion on Earth. The WHO is making rumblings of downgrading pandemic to endemic. Your body is all you really have so if someone chooses to not get vaccinated I believe that to be their (and my) right. I won't have that decision made for me and I won't make that decision for another, except my boy, who is too young to decide for himself. Just like my parents vaccinated me against Polio without asking me first.
- MiroF 5y ago
  - seneca 5y ago
    This is absurd authoritarian double talk. That's like saying you're free to speak your mind, but you're also free to be executed for it. The government punishing you for an action you take (including indirectly, but purposefully) is a pretty good starting point for a definition of not being free to do it.
    - ukj 5y ago
      That is pretty absurd anti-authoritarian double talk also. Comparing being fired with being executed. The government isn’t punishing you because you broke a law - your employer (who happens to be the government) fired you for failing to adhere to conditions of employment. There is literally nothing the government (in any of its capacities) can do to you which would toggle your vaccination status without your consent. Your employer will (dis)incentivise you accordingly towards exercising their freedom of association, but they can’t stick a needle in your arm. Irrespective of how we define “medical freedom” (because I don’t particularly care about definitional combat) the government NOT handcuffing me and sticking a needle in my arm against my will is precisely how I expect my medical autonomy to work in practice.
      - seneca 5y ago
        Honest question: do you believe that a contract someone signs with a gun to their head is legitimate? If not, why not? At what point does compelled consent become illegitimate? I think most people agree a person with a gun to their head is under duress. After that it's just a matter of figuring out where the line is. I personally believe the government threatening peoples' livelihood in order to compell them to be vaccinated is placing those people under duress, and can not be considered legitimate consent. For what it's worth, I also think most healthy people ought to vaccinate themselves just as a matter of being good member of society.
mannanj 5y ago
Are you really straw manning the poster? to say "racism" cannot be compared to covid discrimination and that making the comparison makes him or his argument any “less than” is an emotional character assassination based argument not merits based one. If you’re looking for a response to your numbers that you pulled out, we still have many worse diseases and our leaders economic policies during covid impacted and hurt more people than the “5 million dead” I also didn’t see you or anyone complaining about the obesity; diabetes, car crashes; depression and other far worse epidemics that we’ve had induced by our same shitty health agencies that sell us the covid cure today.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  Comparing covid vaccine mandates to racism severely minimizes how bad racism was/is. It’s the same reason I roll my eyes when people start making vaccine passport holocaust comparisons, it’s absurd hyperbole. I can’t spread obesity diabetes and depression to others. Cars are regulated immensely (though I do think it’s better to design cities that don’t need them… and hey people that walk more are less obese, which reduces diabetes risk). For someone quick to point out a supposed fallacy, you’re heavily leaning on whataboutism. Not that you care, but I am also active in my city for improving pedestrian infrastructure at the expensive of space for cars, and I live in one of the most walkable cities in the country.

peteradio 5y ago

> dramatically reduces the hospitalization rate When administered to the at risk population. When required for young, hospitalization system impact would be marginal.

middleclick 5y ago
Not correct. Here is the official source: https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2021-12-31-Current-COVID-19-Risk-in-Ontario-by-Vaccination-Status.png https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2... Please cite your sources.
- torstenvl 5y ago
  Your link does not address age-specific hospitalization effects of vaccination. As a result, it is non-responsive to the GP's position. If you posted the wrong link and meant to post one that addresses GP's point of view, would you mind fixing the link? On the other hand, on the off chance it was intentional, please try to engage with more honesty and more in good faith.
  - middleclick 5y ago
    - torstenvl 5y ago
      - middleclick 5y ago
        torstenvl 5y ago
        I'm feeling more and more confident that your comments are intentionally snide and personal, so I'm going to bow out. Happy New Year to you and I hope 2022 brings you much joy and happiness.
        dang 5y ago
        Please do not propagate flamewars on HN. We don't want this kind of thing here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        middleclick 5y ago
        dang 5y ago
        Please do not propagate flamewars on HN. We don't want this kind of thing here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- peteradio 5y ago
  That is all people lumped together. Like I said remove "at-risk".
  - middleclick 5y ago
    Cool. https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-s... Which groups are not "at-risk" here? What age? Because it seems like there is a significant % of the population in groups other than 80+ that are in the hospital.
    - peteradio 5y ago
      Under 50 has 20% of ICU cases (how many are incidental and without comorbidity?).
      - middleclick 5y ago
        You are the one who made the claim that age is relevant to this when it is not as if the ICUs are full, it impacts everyone. So maybe find the source and share it here since you are the one who made the argument? Burden of proof is on you, not me.
        peteradio 5y ago
        middleclick 5y ago
        peteradio 5y ago

FourthProtocol 5y ago

I've been vaccinated 3 times. But. 5m out of 7 billion on Earth. The WHO is making rumblings of downgrading pandemic to endemic. Your body is all you really have so if someone chooses to not get vaccinated I believe that to be their (and my) right. I won't have that decision made for me and I won't make that decision for another, except my boy, who is too young to decide for himself. Just like my parents vaccinated me against Polio without asking me first.

MiroF 5y ago
- seneca 5y ago
  This is absurd authoritarian double talk. That's like saying you're free to speak your mind, but you're also free to be executed for it. The government punishing you for an action you take (including indirectly, but purposefully) is a pretty good starting point for a definition of not being free to do it.
  - ukj 5y ago
    That is pretty absurd anti-authoritarian double talk also. Comparing being fired with being executed. The government isn’t punishing you because you broke a law - your employer (who happens to be the government) fired you for failing to adhere to conditions of employment. There is literally nothing the government (in any of its capacities) can do to you which would toggle your vaccination status without your consent. Your employer will (dis)incentivise you accordingly towards exercising their freedom of association, but they can’t stick a needle in your arm. Irrespective of how we define “medical freedom” (because I don’t particularly care about definitional combat) the government NOT handcuffing me and sticking a needle in my arm against my will is precisely how I expect my medical autonomy to work in practice.
    - seneca 5y ago
      Honest question: do you believe that a contract someone signs with a gun to their head is legitimate? If not, why not? At what point does compelled consent become illegitimate? I think most people agree a person with a gun to their head is under duress. After that it's just a matter of figuring out where the line is. I personally believe the government threatening peoples' livelihood in order to compell them to be vaccinated is placing those people under duress, and can not be considered legitimate consent. For what it's worth, I also think most healthy people ought to vaccinate themselves just as a matter of being good member of society.

mannanj 5y ago

Are you really straw manning the poster? to say "racism" cannot be compared to covid discrimination and that making the comparison makes him or his argument any “less than” is an emotional character assassination based argument not merits based one. If you’re looking for a response to your numbers that you pulled out, we still have many worse diseases and our leaders economic policies during covid impacted and hurt more people than the “5 million dead” I also didn’t see you or anyone complaining about the obesity; diabetes, car crashes; depression and other far worse epidemics that we’ve had induced by our same shitty health agencies that sell us the covid cure today.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
micromacrofoot 5y ago
Comparing covid vaccine mandates to racism severely minimizes how bad racism was/is. It’s the same reason I roll my eyes when people start making vaccine passport holocaust comparisons, it’s absurd hyperbole. I can’t spread obesity diabetes and depression to others. Cars are regulated immensely (though I do think it’s better to design cities that don’t need them… and hey people that walk more are less obese, which reduces diabetes risk). For someone quick to point out a supposed fallacy, you’re heavily leaning on whataboutism. Not that you care, but I am also active in my city for improving pedestrian infrastructure at the expensive of space for cars, and I live in one of the most walkable cities in the country.