4 ms·

Master morality vs. Slave morality vs. Victim morality

4 points by julvol 5y ago

gtsop 5y ago
This table has cherry picked values based on the creator's narrative. Doesn't provide any basis for productive discussion imho.
- julvol 5y ago
  Aren't all the discussions about politics, economics and society like that?
  - gtsop 5y ago
    It depends on your goals I guess. I can very happily make a political discussion promoting my beliefs but keep respecting factual evidence and prevent myself from making a claim that isn't supported well enough by data/research even though it might be beneficial for my political argument.
    - julvol 5y ago
      Data/research is a very narrow lenses to look through (but important nevertheless). This master/slave morality is a very famous discussion started by philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche and it's not something very scientific. Doesn't mean it's wrong.
      - gtsop 5y ago
        It's not all about data and research I agree. My point is that something concrete must back up my points. Even if that is a strong reasoning system when data/research are absent. Nevertheless, cherry picking stuff to make an artificiall point is not how i roll
- PaulHoule 5y ago
  The comments on the thread seem to be by people who reacted emotionally to loaded words. For instance a good fraction of commenters read the term ‘slave’ associated with Christianity as ‘Christianity supports slavery’ whereas I see it opposed in the dyad against ‘master’ and believe the poster means the opposite. What I find amusing about the counter-narrative on ‘critical theory’ is that the opponents of critical theory both accuse their opponents of having a victim mentality while themselves they thoroughly seem to think they are victimized. (E.g. ‘if I use the wrong pronoun I will be flayed alive by transsexuals, you think you are safe now because you always call them by name or call them “that person” but just wait till they come for you…’) It is sad in many ways because it doesn’t confront the real failures of those movements at all (e.g. Hilary Clinton is as contemptuous of those people as they are) but it doesn’t matter because the counter-narrative is good for political mobilization. (Why else would somebody under 70 vote Republican?)
  - julvol 5y ago
    >while themselves they thoroughly seem to think they are victimized Interesting take, now when I think about it you are probably right. Actually this maybe shows that the "victim" morality is a thing...
dejj 5y ago
Nietzsche set up the dichotomy of master vs. slave morality. He characterizes slave-thinking by it assuming “stupid/dumb/ignorant is good”. This trichotomy seems to further split up slave morality into slave vs. victim.
- julvol 5y ago
  At first I thought it's the same thing but found it interesting that maybe a new morality (or a new branch) is forming now. Certainly interesting thought! Have to reread On the Genealogy of Morality...
- PKop 5y ago
  I would characterize it more as a promotion of the values of "weak > strong". The meek shall inherit the Earth, is a good encapsulation.

4 points by julvol 5y ago

This table has cherry picked values based on the creator's narrative. Doesn't provide any basis for productive discussion imho.

julvol 5y ago
Aren't all the discussions about politics, economics and society like that?
- gtsop 5y ago
  It depends on your goals I guess. I can very happily make a political discussion promoting my beliefs but keep respecting factual evidence and prevent myself from making a claim that isn't supported well enough by data/research even though it might be beneficial for my political argument.
  - julvol 5y ago
    Data/research is a very narrow lenses to look through (but important nevertheless). This master/slave morality is a very famous discussion started by philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche and it's not something very scientific. Doesn't mean it's wrong.
    - gtsop 5y ago
      It's not all about data and research I agree. My point is that something concrete must back up my points. Even if that is a strong reasoning system when data/research are absent. Nevertheless, cherry picking stuff to make an artificiall point is not how i roll
PaulHoule 5y ago
The comments on the thread seem to be by people who reacted emotionally to loaded words. For instance a good fraction of commenters read the term ‘slave’ associated with Christianity as ‘Christianity supports slavery’ whereas I see it opposed in the dyad against ‘master’ and believe the poster means the opposite. What I find amusing about the counter-narrative on ‘critical theory’ is that the opponents of critical theory both accuse their opponents of having a victim mentality while themselves they thoroughly seem to think they are victimized. (E.g. ‘if I use the wrong pronoun I will be flayed alive by transsexuals, you think you are safe now because you always call them by name or call them “that person” but just wait till they come for you…’) It is sad in many ways because it doesn’t confront the real failures of those movements at all (e.g. Hilary Clinton is as contemptuous of those people as they are) but it doesn’t matter because the counter-narrative is good for political mobilization. (Why else would somebody under 70 vote Republican?)
- julvol 5y ago
  >while themselves they thoroughly seem to think they are victimized Interesting take, now when I think about it you are probably right. Actually this maybe shows that the "victim" morality is a thing...

dejj 5y ago

Nietzsche set up the dichotomy of master vs. slave morality. He characterizes slave-thinking by it assuming “stupid/dumb/ignorant is good”. This trichotomy seems to further split up slave morality into slave vs. victim.

julvol 5y ago
At first I thought it's the same thing but found it interesting that maybe a new morality (or a new branch) is forming now. Certainly interesting thought! Have to reread On the Genealogy of Morality...
PKop 5y ago
I would characterize it more as a promotion of the values of "weak > strong". The meek shall inherit the Earth, is a good encapsulation.