10 ms·

It’s far more likely that the OP is lacking in social skills. People are not two dimensional, and people who are who you find at most parties. Conversations in

It’s far more likely that the OP is lacking in social skills. People are not two dimensional, and people who are who you find at most parties. Conversations in a social setting have a certain protocol to them. They start out with small talk, that’s how you learn someone’s mannerisms, personality, flow, etc. without having to actually concentrate on the details of what you’re talking about. You read their subtle cues to learn how to interact with them. Not everyone is matched appropriately and I find it takes a lot of effort, especially emotional effort to connect with someone you don’t know for the first time, at a party where there are a lot of distractions. Have you ever noticed people who glide effortlessly from person to person, and who are able to talk to anyone? Seek those people out and study how they interact with other humans. Having good social skills is just as important as being well read, maybe even more so. A good book can be entertaining but it only takes a chance encounter to meet a life long friend, form a beneficial relationship, or meet a romantic partner. Part of me wonders if the OP were to meet one of the authors of the books he reads at a party, would he be able to interact with them? Probably not, and that’s my point exactly. You’re going to go to a lot of parties in life, if you give up on them you are depriving yourself of valuable life experience. It has nothing to do with books or how smart you are.

crate_barre 5y ago
Eh, maybe? A lot of people usually find that one good friend or life partner that they spend most of their time with. If you don’t find those important connections, socializing will inevitably become a lonely experience. Groups have always been a disappointment. I suppose it’s antisocial, but trying to get your dose of social from groups constantly is extremely exhausting in the long run. Way too much posturing all around, and often just observing the dynamics of groups is, again, exhausting. Just recently I saw hierarchical dynamic where everyone was sucking up to one person. Whatever, i mean, I can accommodate a few of that human bullshit from time to time, but color me antisocial for just wanting to not do that regularly. Socializing is demoralizing at times. Some of us are really not pack animals.
josefrichter 5y ago
No, it’s not far more likely. The author didn’t say he had trouble socializing with people. He just said he found the conversations with majority of them intellectually shallow, so there’s no strong urge to stay around those people, even though they’re friends.
- wruza 5y ago
  It may vary from person to person, but yeah. I’m in the same boat, I can socialize, but prefer not to, because that feels plain and boring. I have so many questions which almost nobody around thinks of, sometimes these are far off their comprehension (not in an intellectual sense, but in a deep curiosity related one). Complexity is my thing. I thought that maybe it is just my way to escape socializing which I can’t really handle, sort of a replacement. I worked with my CBT doctor for a year(!) and even he came to conclusion that… it is not. You, HN, popsci and books and articles are my best intellectual friends, and that’s why I spend most of my free time in the internet and not with my friends or colleagues which I naturally have no genuine interest in. It’s hard to socialize when everything is boring and second-order af. Edit: sometimes I think about how they feel. I really tried to find out if they maybe feel like always a little drunk or high on weed, because some people always act just like I am in these states. It would be interesting to experience some magical mind-hardware swapping to check if it’s true. Maybe I just lack natural alcohol levels in my blood or something like that, or is it a completely different experience. No chance to know for sure.
  - gexla 5y ago
    Did you ever play as a kid? If you had kids, how would you play with them? Do you play with pets? Is all of the above boring? I think I would take being bored in social settings as a creative challenge. I love the play element of social interactions. It's an improv. Think of taking a hot potato and passing it back and forth as you and the partner continue some line, which could seem almost pointless outside of that context. It's the activity which I enjoy, not the content. Maybe it helps that I'm generally quick witted when I'm talking to people, and I love every opportunity to exercise it. Cracking jokes is a great way to get people out of "serious" mode. As I said in another comment, deep conversation is like dating. It's unlikely that any given person is going to be interested in whatever it is that you're looking for right at that time. It works better when you have a large pool of people, because you get a higher hit rate. That's why the author of the article likes writing online in front of a big audience.
chagaif 5y ago
I think I have the social skills to glide effortlessly from person to person but I still identify with a lot of points the OP mentioned. I prefer being with people but I sometimes feel so alone when I want to talk about ideas and tech. I wish I had the motivation to write more about these ideas and then I'd need to know where to find people who want to read (I guess here on HN but that also doesn't come easy). I'd gladly give up on these stupid parties with loud music and these annoying small talk social norms and just meet up with people and code or brainstorm. I try my best looking for Hackathons, boardgame nights and recently I rediscovered EA meetings(effective altruism). I'm not a genius, which is probably why I'm not flooded with interest from other people but I'm enthusiastic about ideas and tech and I'm struggling with being alone in that aspect in my day to day life.
- nefitty 5y ago
  I hadn't thought of joining EA meetings. It might be a good social/organizational exercise for me to try to start one in my town if there isn't one going already.
  - chagaif 5y ago
    Yeah I would encourage you to do that!
- dynamite-ready 5y ago
  This is exactly how I've been feeling recently. I'm not entirely unsociable, but I'm happiest when pursuing my interests. From time to time, I find one or two people with a similar level of knowledge to mine to talk to, but no long term friends of this kind. Sharing stuff on Hacker News is an option, sure, but there's a limit to the amount of trust you can afford here, and a blog post isn't the most expedient way to explore complicated ideas.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
scotty79 5y ago
> Part of me wonders if the OP were to meet one of the authors of the books he reads at a party, would he be able to interact with them? Probably not, and that’s my point exactly. Come on. They already wrote what they had in mind. Why would you want to talk to them? Sometimes it's not even worth reading their second book because it is about the same thing. OP would probably wished his acquaintances were available in the book form because he could then skim the boring parts which in case of some people would be the whole thing. And then there's this saying of specifically not meeting your heroes. > A good book can be entertaining but it only takes a chance encounter to meet a life long friend, form a beneficial relationship, or meet a romantic partner. That doesn't alleviate the fact that beneficial relationships and romantic partners can be intellectually unfullfilling. The guy is going to parties. He just quits bit earlier than everyone else. Most of us meet people really for one and only one reason. For social primate natural pleasure of physical interaction. Some people crave it more, some crave other things more. It's ok. No need to judge one way or the other. > You’re going to go to a lot of parties in life, if you give up on them you are depriving yourself of valuable life experience. True, but parchute jumping is also a valuable life expeirience yet it's not everybody's cup of tea. Same with interacting with people. > It has nothing to do with books or how smart you are. That's correct. However you have limited time in a day and people who get more kick out of the ideas than people have to make choices.
erikbye 5y ago
> It’s far more likely that the OP is lacking in social skills. > Part of me wonders if the OP were to meet one of the authors of the books he reads at a party, would he be able to interact with them? Probably not > You’re going to go to a lot of parties in life, if you give up on them Why do you have this incessant need to make assumptions about the author and generalize? You're also placing tremendous importance on socializing and parties. This is not something that's of importance or even relevance for many intellectuals and introverts. Most parties consist of unrewarding, mundane chit-chat, easily forgotten. Going to parties in the hopes of finding a new "life long friend" or "beneficial relationship" is like playing the lottery. Also, if you're going to place that much importance on parties, you need to define what kind of parties, then we can address those discretely. Company events? Parties with friends? Relatives? Conferences? Burning man?
- resonious 5y ago
  I think the argument is not specifically about parties. OP and this comment's GP are both talking about parties because it's an easy way to frame a confrontation with strangers. I personally agree with the gp that "I'd rather read a book than go to a party" indicates room for improvement in social skills. So does "parties are only small talk". A skilled communicator can transition from small talk to more complex/interesting topics when talking with a stranger. Most books are about people, right? How do you suspect the authors came up with all the interesting characters? You can find interesting characters in real life too, it just takes a different skillset from reading. Neither I nor the GP (I think) are trying to say that poor social skills is an insult to character. Socializing is genuinely tiring for some people. That doesn't mean you can't practice and get better at it.
  - erikbye 5y ago
    > I think the argument is not specifically about parties. OP and this comment's GP are both talking about parties because it's an easy way to frame a confrontation with strangers. Might be a framing device, yes. > I personally agree with the gp that "I'd rather read a book than go to a party" indicates room for improvement in social skills. I think that's reaching again. That might just be a personal preference, "I enjoy reading more than socializing." Is this not a valid opinion to have? One can also occasionally do both (not at the same time) but still prefer one over the other if given the choice. > A skilled communicator can transition from small talk to more complex/interesting topics when talking with a stranger. The author's problem wasn't that he couldn't engage in conversations about "complex" or interesting topics, it was particularly about the topics that were of interest to him. No matter your communication skills, you won't be able to strike up a meaningful conversation with just anyone on HAIFA constructions and their properties. > Most books are about people, right? How do you suspect the authors came up with all the interesting characters? You can find interesting characters in real life too, it just takes a different skillset from reading. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that uninteresting topics at parties equal uninteresting characters, either way, I think this is way outside the scope of the discussion. Neither OP nor the person you're replying to (me) has even hinted at this. > Neither I nor the GP (I think) are trying to say that poor social skills is an insult to character. I'm not so sure about that. GP practically called lack of social skills a deficiency and he wrote about hardly anything but character. > That doesn't mean you can't practice and get better at it. Again, outside the scope of the discussion, at least as a response to my comments and the author's article. But, I will respond all the same, because it irks me. First, it's a truism. Second, it feels like your premise is that one should be good at it? Should everyone strive to be better at socializing? I think no. Those who enjoy socializing should keep their skills sharp and probably work to improve them; because to them, the act of socializing is a rewarding one. If you do not innately enjoy it, it's highly unlikely you ever will, and why should you even strive to want this? For what purpose? No, if you do not enjoy socializing, spend as little time on it as possible. Spend time on what's rewarding to you. If staying at home reading books is it, then that's absolutely fine. Unfortunately, there is this inane pressure in society to be sociable, appealing, and likable. To be such a person, to be liked in the office at that level, or at parties, or worse, in social media, is even equated with success. None of my "heroes" are or were likable. They were difficult people who obsessed about their work, it took nearly all their time, in some cases the sacrifices were huge, family time, the family itself, and even procreation was sometimes sacrificed, but damn, these people laid the foundation for modern civilization and technology. This is what all of humanity should strive for. Valuable contributions. Do you know how all those people made those contributions? By spending inordinate amounts of time by themselves. Absorbed.
raytube 5y ago
Yeah mate you want to get out of that wheel chair and run a marathon, you don't know what you are missing...
- sornaensis 5y ago
  This is a pretty awful comparison to draw. Outside of select few conditions, pretty much everyone has the ability to hone their social skills if they want to. It's like anything else, it requires practice and some people require more 'active' practice and mindfulness for success, while others will find it comes more naturally to them. The author of this blog post sounds like someone with a superiority complex fueled by bad social skills that make him resent people for his inability to connect with or be interested in _them_, which is why he constructs the excuse that the people around him are simply 'not intelligent' or can't handle the big serious topics he wants to discuss all the time. I mean if he's so smart and wants to sit around discussing ideas why doesn't he just find people that have that in common? No instead the people around him are simply inadequate and he is forced to retreat into solitude. I'm sorry but that is a ridiculous outlook to have in life.
  - raytube 5y ago
    Perhaps that's because you value that social interaction. I am a social butterfly. My partner has Asperger's, and despises social situations. But is also a teacher and enjoys discussing and sharing their specialised area. However much I would like my partner to come to the pub and do small talk it is agony for them. People are all different.
    - sornaensis 5y ago
      I specifically said I don't think it applies to people with actual actual disabilities like Aspergers. Perfectly capable nerds just hide behind their intellectualism to avoid self improvement. You don't need to be a social butterfly to cultivate emotional intelligence.
      - 5y ago
wutbrodo 5y ago
This doesn't encompass the issue the author is describing. There's an axis of personality that looks something like "intellectual curiosity", which exists independently of social skills, and isn't filled simply by having social contact with arbitrary people. It's no different from the many other axes along which people find their personalities compatible with each other. The challenge with this framing is that you can be too narrow-minded about it, deciding that you can deduce what someone has to contribute based on your first impression of them. In my experience, the tendency towards curiosity exists independently of class, education level, and even intelligence (though the correlation is stronger here). But once you get past the smalltalk phase that you describe, it's a pretty easy quality to suss out. It's a very real, very significant gap in one's social life if you are on one end of this axis and none of your friends are. I found myself incidentally in this position a few years ago, and taking steps to consciously shape my social environment and focus on seeking out more intellectually-curious friends was very worth it.
lelanthran 5y ago
> It’s far more likely that the OP is lacking in social skills. I disagree, I've only read two posts by this individual (both posted on HN) and have never heard of him prior, and both times he came off as having a superiority complex. Both his postings have the same basic message - "I'm too smart for normal people. People who disagree are obviously too stupid to understand how smart I am". FWIW, the smartest and highest-IQ people I have known have had no problem relating to us normal people. This individual might be one of the smartest people in the world (I've no idea what his achievements are and I don't care enough to look it up[1]), but in his writings he comes of as someone of normal intelligence who wishes to portray themselves as someone of significant intelligence. The only question I have is, why is this person's self-written ego-massages being posted to HN? Both the blogs posted here have been mostly self-congratulatory paeans to his imagined mental and intellectual superiority. [1] Maybe someone else can tell us all what this person is famous for.
- jnovek 5y ago
  A more charitable possibility is that the author is depressed. I’ve had the misfortune of battling with depression several times in my life and one of the less discussed features of the disorder is self-pity. It can make depressed people pretty unpleasant to be around which reinforces the lonely experience of the disorder. This article definitely resonates with me in that way. Feeling alone even in a room full of people who like you, for example. If that’s what the author is experiencing, writing articles like this is probably a coping mechanism, however, the content being less than flattering is why therapists generally tell us to journal (private) rather than blog (public). :-)
- teawrecks 5y ago
  Nothing you said convinced me they are lacking in social skills. In fact, I'm now more convinced.
  - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
    He reminds me of the character in the Twilight Zone episode “Time Enough At Last” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oLoNGRVeC7Y https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oLoNGRVeC7Y
mkr-hn 5y ago
If I have to pretend to be someone I'm not to have a social life, I'd rather not. Fortunately, there are plenty of people I get on with fine opening with stuff I actually find interesting, and they collect into large social groups and gatherings where you can find your people and be authentic. The trick is to build a social network that's compatible with who you are and not try to live up to a standard set by those socialites who are able to talk to anyone at any party. I have excellent social skills. I've done that. I can do that. It got boring fast.
jakupovic 5y ago
Fully agree here. Social interactions take a lot of work and have to be tended too. Like they say friendships are like trees, who need constant watering and taking care of.
frays 5y ago
As an engineer who has primarily been focused on technical skills the last 15 years, I can attest that having good social skills would get you further in 5 years than I have in the past 15.
TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
He reminds me of the character in the Twilight Zone episode “Time Enough At Last” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oLoNGRVeC7Y https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oLoNGRVeC7Y Burgess Meredith is a bookworm and is bothered by everyone (including his wife) interrupting his reading. After a nuclear detonation, he seems to be the only one who survived because he was hiding in a basement, reading, during the explosions. After discovering the devastation and his aloneness, he is about to kill himself when he notices the ruins of the Public Library. This is his best possible outcome: lifetimes of books to read and no one to interrupt him while doing it. He is overwhelmed with joy. But I won’t give away the ending.
ravenstine 5y ago
> It’s far more likely that the OP is lacking in social skills. Ugh... I'm sure you mean well, but I doubt anyone can analyze someone's real-world behavior based on a few paragraphs. This form of psychoanalysis is something the smartypants on HN do a lot, and it should be considered more offensive than it usually is. I have been called antisocial, autistic, sociopathic, you name it; while I am certainly imperfect, it is very rude to run to these conclusions based on a person's isolated opinion they were willing to make themselves vulnerable over. Some people just don't get stimulated by conventional social settings. I consider myself a student of human behavior and have tried improving my social skills over the years (to varying levels of success), but in the end I really don't care very much about sportsball, the weather, the Netflix show of the hour, learning the names of a dozen people I will never see again, what Tina said to David, the recipe for the dish someone brought to the party. This isn't to say I don't care on any level, but I can only take so much of it because I am way more stimulated by ideas and my own imagination. This isn't something I have much choice in, and there comes a point where I will not apologize for it. Sure, you don't want to never go to any parties, but not all parties are worth the time. If I know I'm not right for a particular party, I'll just leave and give a polite reason. No sense in me dragging it down for others. If I was at a nerd party, I wouldn't expect Chad Thunderrock to hang around for the sake of it.
billconan 5y ago
I won't conclude that the OP is lacking in social skills, because it seems to be weird that being articulate and lacking in social skills can coexist. Being a good writer means you have to write in the view of your readers and be very considerate. And I think those are the same social skills. Self-centered person can't be a good writer. I can resonate to this article. I feel lonely and at the same time, I have been pruning my direct circle. As I grow older, my circle gets smaller, because I found most connections are not nutritious. Many of my colleagues seem to only care about two topics, 1. the (micro) housing market. 2. how to send their kids to the Ive league. There is no talking about innovation, creativity, ideas. The topics don't have to be about tech, music, finance, art are all good. My point is, I think being an interesting person, one has to be curious and has some spiritual pursue above the life itself. Unfortunately most people (in my life) seem to be the same industrial products being manufactured on a same conveying belt.
62951413 5y ago
Asperger syndrome? Sheldon Cooper? A typical software developer before he hits 30 and learns more about normies and how to pretend a little better? I have no problem in recognizing myself in his post for example. I'm surprised more people on this forum cannot relate to it. To expect people with such a psychological profile to be able to just "acquire more social skills" is naive. We are not born that way and to a large extent this is how we self-selected into working with computers in the first place.
inthegreenwoods 5y ago
inthegreenwoods 5y ago

crate_barre 5y ago

Eh, maybe? A lot of people usually find that one good friend or life partner that they spend most of their time with. If you don’t find those important connections, socializing will inevitably become a lonely experience. Groups have always been a disappointment. I suppose it’s antisocial, but trying to get your dose of social from groups constantly is extremely exhausting in the long run. Way too much posturing all around, and often just observing the dynamics of groups is, again, exhausting. Just recently I saw hierarchical dynamic where everyone was sucking up to one person. Whatever, i mean, I can accommodate a few of that human bullshit from time to time, but color me antisocial for just wanting to not do that regularly. Socializing is demoralizing at times. Some of us are really not pack animals.

josefrichter 5y ago

No, it’s not far more likely. The author didn’t say he had trouble socializing with people. He just said he found the conversations with majority of them intellectually shallow, so there’s no strong urge to stay around those people, even though they’re friends.

wruza 5y ago
It may vary from person to person, but yeah. I’m in the same boat, I can socialize, but prefer not to, because that feels plain and boring. I have so many questions which almost nobody around thinks of, sometimes these are far off their comprehension (not in an intellectual sense, but in a deep curiosity related one). Complexity is my thing. I thought that maybe it is just my way to escape socializing which I can’t really handle, sort of a replacement. I worked with my CBT doctor for a year(!) and even he came to conclusion that… it is not. You, HN, popsci and books and articles are my best intellectual friends, and that’s why I spend most of my free time in the internet and not with my friends or colleagues which I naturally have no genuine interest in. It’s hard to socialize when everything is boring and second-order af. Edit: sometimes I think about how they feel. I really tried to find out if they maybe feel like always a little drunk or high on weed, because some people always act just like I am in these states. It would be interesting to experience some magical mind-hardware swapping to check if it’s true. Maybe I just lack natural alcohol levels in my blood or something like that, or is it a completely different experience. No chance to know for sure.
- gexla 5y ago
  Did you ever play as a kid? If you had kids, how would you play with them? Do you play with pets? Is all of the above boring? I think I would take being bored in social settings as a creative challenge. I love the play element of social interactions. It's an improv. Think of taking a hot potato and passing it back and forth as you and the partner continue some line, which could seem almost pointless outside of that context. It's the activity which I enjoy, not the content. Maybe it helps that I'm generally quick witted when I'm talking to people, and I love every opportunity to exercise it. Cracking jokes is a great way to get people out of "serious" mode. As I said in another comment, deep conversation is like dating. It's unlikely that any given person is going to be interested in whatever it is that you're looking for right at that time. It works better when you have a large pool of people, because you get a higher hit rate. That's why the author of the article likes writing online in front of a big audience.

chagaif 5y ago

I think I have the social skills to glide effortlessly from person to person but I still identify with a lot of points the OP mentioned. I prefer being with people but I sometimes feel so alone when I want to talk about ideas and tech. I wish I had the motivation to write more about these ideas and then I'd need to know where to find people who want to read (I guess here on HN but that also doesn't come easy). I'd gladly give up on these stupid parties with loud music and these annoying small talk social norms and just meet up with people and code or brainstorm. I try my best looking for Hackathons, boardgame nights and recently I rediscovered EA meetings(effective altruism). I'm not a genius, which is probably why I'm not flooded with interest from other people but I'm enthusiastic about ideas and tech and I'm struggling with being alone in that aspect in my day to day life.

nefitty 5y ago
I hadn't thought of joining EA meetings. It might be a good social/organizational exercise for me to try to start one in my town if there isn't one going already.
- chagaif 5y ago
  Yeah I would encourage you to do that!
dynamite-ready 5y ago
This is exactly how I've been feeling recently. I'm not entirely unsociable, but I'm happiest when pursuing my interests. From time to time, I find one or two people with a similar level of knowledge to mine to talk to, but no long term friends of this kind. Sharing stuff on Hacker News is an option, sure, but there's a limit to the amount of trust you can afford here, and a blog post isn't the most expedient way to explore complicated ideas.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

scotty79 5y ago

> Part of me wonders if the OP were to meet one of the authors of the books he reads at a party, would he be able to interact with them? Probably not, and that’s my point exactly. Come on. They already wrote what they had in mind. Why would you want to talk to them? Sometimes it's not even worth reading their second book because it is about the same thing. OP would probably wished his acquaintances were available in the book form because he could then skim the boring parts which in case of some people would be the whole thing. And then there's this saying of specifically not meeting your heroes. > A good book can be entertaining but it only takes a chance encounter to meet a life long friend, form a beneficial relationship, or meet a romantic partner. That doesn't alleviate the fact that beneficial relationships and romantic partners can be intellectually unfullfilling. The guy is going to parties. He just quits bit earlier than everyone else. Most of us meet people really for one and only one reason. For social primate natural pleasure of physical interaction. Some people crave it more, some crave other things more. It's ok. No need to judge one way or the other. > You’re going to go to a lot of parties in life, if you give up on them you are depriving yourself of valuable life experience. True, but parchute jumping is also a valuable life expeirience yet it's not everybody's cup of tea. Same with interacting with people. > It has nothing to do with books or how smart you are. That's correct. However you have limited time in a day and people who get more kick out of the ideas than people have to make choices.

erikbye 5y ago

> It’s far more likely that the OP is lacking in social skills. > Part of me wonders if the OP were to meet one of the authors of the books he reads at a party, would he be able to interact with them? Probably not > You’re going to go to a lot of parties in life, if you give up on them Why do you have this incessant need to make assumptions about the author and generalize? You're also placing tremendous importance on socializing and parties. This is not something that's of importance or even relevance for many intellectuals and introverts. Most parties consist of unrewarding, mundane chit-chat, easily forgotten. Going to parties in the hopes of finding a new "life long friend" or "beneficial relationship" is like playing the lottery. Also, if you're going to place that much importance on parties, you need to define what kind of parties, then we can address those discretely. Company events? Parties with friends? Relatives? Conferences? Burning man?

resonious 5y ago
I think the argument is not specifically about parties. OP and this comment's GP are both talking about parties because it's an easy way to frame a confrontation with strangers. I personally agree with the gp that "I'd rather read a book than go to a party" indicates room for improvement in social skills. So does "parties are only small talk". A skilled communicator can transition from small talk to more complex/interesting topics when talking with a stranger. Most books are about people, right? How do you suspect the authors came up with all the interesting characters? You can find interesting characters in real life too, it just takes a different skillset from reading. Neither I nor the GP (I think) are trying to say that poor social skills is an insult to character. Socializing is genuinely tiring for some people. That doesn't mean you can't practice and get better at it.
- erikbye 5y ago
  > I think the argument is not specifically about parties. OP and this comment's GP are both talking about parties because it's an easy way to frame a confrontation with strangers. Might be a framing device, yes. > I personally agree with the gp that "I'd rather read a book than go to a party" indicates room for improvement in social skills. I think that's reaching again. That might just be a personal preference, "I enjoy reading more than socializing." Is this not a valid opinion to have? One can also occasionally do both (not at the same time) but still prefer one over the other if given the choice. > A skilled communicator can transition from small talk to more complex/interesting topics when talking with a stranger. The author's problem wasn't that he couldn't engage in conversations about "complex" or interesting topics, it was particularly about the topics that were of interest to him. No matter your communication skills, you won't be able to strike up a meaningful conversation with just anyone on HAIFA constructions and their properties. > Most books are about people, right? How do you suspect the authors came up with all the interesting characters? You can find interesting characters in real life too, it just takes a different skillset from reading. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that uninteresting topics at parties equal uninteresting characters, either way, I think this is way outside the scope of the discussion. Neither OP nor the person you're replying to (me) has even hinted at this. > Neither I nor the GP (I think) are trying to say that poor social skills is an insult to character. I'm not so sure about that. GP practically called lack of social skills a deficiency and he wrote about hardly anything but character. > That doesn't mean you can't practice and get better at it. Again, outside the scope of the discussion, at least as a response to my comments and the author's article. But, I will respond all the same, because it irks me. First, it's a truism. Second, it feels like your premise is that one should be good at it? Should everyone strive to be better at socializing? I think no. Those who enjoy socializing should keep their skills sharp and probably work to improve them; because to them, the act of socializing is a rewarding one. If you do not innately enjoy it, it's highly unlikely you ever will, and why should you even strive to want this? For what purpose? No, if you do not enjoy socializing, spend as little time on it as possible. Spend time on what's rewarding to you. If staying at home reading books is it, then that's absolutely fine. Unfortunately, there is this inane pressure in society to be sociable, appealing, and likable. To be such a person, to be liked in the office at that level, or at parties, or worse, in social media, is even equated with success. None of my "heroes" are or were likable. They were difficult people who obsessed about their work, it took nearly all their time, in some cases the sacrifices were huge, family time, the family itself, and even procreation was sometimes sacrificed, but damn, these people laid the foundation for modern civilization and technology. This is what all of humanity should strive for. Valuable contributions. Do you know how all those people made those contributions? By spending inordinate amounts of time by themselves. Absorbed.

raytube 5y ago

Yeah mate you want to get out of that wheel chair and run a marathon, you don't know what you are missing...

sornaensis 5y ago
This is a pretty awful comparison to draw. Outside of select few conditions, pretty much everyone has the ability to hone their social skills if they want to. It's like anything else, it requires practice and some people require more 'active' practice and mindfulness for success, while others will find it comes more naturally to them. The author of this blog post sounds like someone with a superiority complex fueled by bad social skills that make him resent people for his inability to connect with or be interested in _them_, which is why he constructs the excuse that the people around him are simply 'not intelligent' or can't handle the big serious topics he wants to discuss all the time. I mean if he's so smart and wants to sit around discussing ideas why doesn't he just find people that have that in common? No instead the people around him are simply inadequate and he is forced to retreat into solitude. I'm sorry but that is a ridiculous outlook to have in life.
- raytube 5y ago
  Perhaps that's because you value that social interaction. I am a social butterfly. My partner has Asperger's, and despises social situations. But is also a teacher and enjoys discussing and sharing their specialised area. However much I would like my partner to come to the pub and do small talk it is agony for them. People are all different.
  - sornaensis 5y ago
    I specifically said I don't think it applies to people with actual actual disabilities like Aspergers. Perfectly capable nerds just hide behind their intellectualism to avoid self improvement. You don't need to be a social butterfly to cultivate emotional intelligence.
    - 5y ago

wutbrodo 5y ago

This doesn't encompass the issue the author is describing. There's an axis of personality that looks something like "intellectual curiosity", which exists independently of social skills, and isn't filled simply by having social contact with arbitrary people. It's no different from the many other axes along which people find their personalities compatible with each other. The challenge with this framing is that you can be too narrow-minded about it, deciding that you can deduce what someone has to contribute based on your first impression of them. In my experience, the tendency towards curiosity exists independently of class, education level, and even intelligence (though the correlation is stronger here). But once you get past the smalltalk phase that you describe, it's a pretty easy quality to suss out. It's a very real, very significant gap in one's social life if you are on one end of this axis and none of your friends are. I found myself incidentally in this position a few years ago, and taking steps to consciously shape my social environment and focus on seeking out more intellectually-curious friends was very worth it.

lelanthran 5y ago

> It’s far more likely that the OP is lacking in social skills. I disagree, I've only read two posts by this individual (both posted on HN) and have never heard of him prior, and both times he came off as having a superiority complex. Both his postings have the same basic message - "I'm too smart for normal people. People who disagree are obviously too stupid to understand how smart I am". FWIW, the smartest and highest-IQ people I have known have had no problem relating to us normal people. This individual might be one of the smartest people in the world (I've no idea what his achievements are and I don't care enough to look it up[1]), but in his writings he comes of as someone of normal intelligence who wishes to portray themselves as someone of significant intelligence. The only question I have is, why is this person's self-written ego-massages being posted to HN? Both the blogs posted here have been mostly self-congratulatory paeans to his imagined mental and intellectual superiority. [1] Maybe someone else can tell us all what this person is famous for.

jnovek 5y ago
A more charitable possibility is that the author is depressed. I’ve had the misfortune of battling with depression several times in my life and one of the less discussed features of the disorder is self-pity. It can make depressed people pretty unpleasant to be around which reinforces the lonely experience of the disorder. This article definitely resonates with me in that way. Feeling alone even in a room full of people who like you, for example. If that’s what the author is experiencing, writing articles like this is probably a coping mechanism, however, the content being less than flattering is why therapists generally tell us to journal (private) rather than blog (public). :-)
teawrecks 5y ago
Nothing you said convinced me they are lacking in social skills. In fact, I'm now more convinced.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  He reminds me of the character in the Twilight Zone episode “Time Enough At Last” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oLoNGRVeC7Y https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oLoNGRVeC7Y

mkr-hn 5y ago

If I have to pretend to be someone I'm not to have a social life, I'd rather not. Fortunately, there are plenty of people I get on with fine opening with stuff I actually find interesting, and they collect into large social groups and gatherings where you can find your people and be authentic. The trick is to build a social network that's compatible with who you are and not try to live up to a standard set by those socialites who are able to talk to anyone at any party. I have excellent social skills. I've done that. I can do that. It got boring fast.

jakupovic 5y ago

Fully agree here. Social interactions take a lot of work and have to be tended too. Like they say friendships are like trees, who need constant watering and taking care of.

frays 5y ago

As an engineer who has primarily been focused on technical skills the last 15 years, I can attest that having good social skills would get you further in 5 years than I have in the past 15.

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago

He reminds me of the character in the Twilight Zone episode “Time Enough At Last” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oLoNGRVeC7Y https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oLoNGRVeC7Y Burgess Meredith is a bookworm and is bothered by everyone (including his wife) interrupting his reading. After a nuclear detonation, he seems to be the only one who survived because he was hiding in a basement, reading, during the explosions. After discovering the devastation and his aloneness, he is about to kill himself when he notices the ruins of the Public Library. This is his best possible outcome: lifetimes of books to read and no one to interrupt him while doing it. He is overwhelmed with joy. But I won’t give away the ending.

ravenstine 5y ago

> It’s far more likely that the OP is lacking in social skills. Ugh... I'm sure you mean well, but I doubt anyone can analyze someone's real-world behavior based on a few paragraphs. This form of psychoanalysis is something the smartypants on HN do a lot, and it should be considered more offensive than it usually is. I have been called antisocial, autistic, sociopathic, you name it; while I am certainly imperfect, it is very rude to run to these conclusions based on a person's isolated opinion they were willing to make themselves vulnerable over. Some people just don't get stimulated by conventional social settings. I consider myself a student of human behavior and have tried improving my social skills over the years (to varying levels of success), but in the end I really don't care very much about sportsball, the weather, the Netflix show of the hour, learning the names of a dozen people I will never see again, what Tina said to David, the recipe for the dish someone brought to the party. This isn't to say I don't care on any level, but I can only take so much of it because I am way more stimulated by ideas and my own imagination. This isn't something I have much choice in, and there comes a point where I will not apologize for it. Sure, you don't want to never go to any parties, but not all parties are worth the time. If I know I'm not right for a particular party, I'll just leave and give a polite reason. No sense in me dragging it down for others. If I was at a nerd party, I wouldn't expect Chad Thunderrock to hang around for the sake of it.

billconan 5y ago

I won't conclude that the OP is lacking in social skills, because it seems to be weird that being articulate and lacking in social skills can coexist. Being a good writer means you have to write in the view of your readers and be very considerate. And I think those are the same social skills. Self-centered person can't be a good writer. I can resonate to this article. I feel lonely and at the same time, I have been pruning my direct circle. As I grow older, my circle gets smaller, because I found most connections are not nutritious. Many of my colleagues seem to only care about two topics, 1. the (micro) housing market. 2. how to send their kids to the Ive league. There is no talking about innovation, creativity, ideas. The topics don't have to be about tech, music, finance, art are all good. My point is, I think being an interesting person, one has to be curious and has some spiritual pursue above the life itself. Unfortunately most people (in my life) seem to be the same industrial products being manufactured on a same conveying belt.

62951413 5y ago

Asperger syndrome? Sheldon Cooper? A typical software developer before he hits 30 and learns more about normies and how to pretend a little better? I have no problem in recognizing myself in his post for example. I'm surprised more people on this forum cannot relate to it. To expect people with such a psychological profile to be able to just "acquire more social skills" is naive. We are not born that way and to a large extent this is how we self-selected into working with computers in the first place.

inthegreenwoods 5y ago