3 ms·

I really like this site, it’s a blast for me. Please keep at it as this stuff deserves to be remembered. I realise the book is still in draft and so open to ch

by Lio 5y ago

I really like this site, it’s a blast for me. Please keep at it as this stuff deserves to be remembered. I realise the book is still in draft and so open to change but it might be worth noting that in its current form you’re only covering the American 8-bit market. To my European eyes it looks weird to talk about the 8-bit scene and not mention Acorn BBC Micro, Sinclair and compatibles or Amstrad. I can also see the abscess of MSX references. That’s fine if that’s the goal but does leave out a lot of world changing developments. E.g. the design of the BBC Micro led to the design of the first Arm processor. Running BBC BASIC at the speed of 6502 assembler was one of its design goals.

flatiron 5y ago
Oy! What about me speccy!
- Lio 5y ago
  I thought I'd covered that with Sinclair and compatibles ;) I'm actually more ashamed I missed off interesting stuff from Tulip, Dragon, Grundy, RM, Minitel and a whole host of others.
Lio 5y ago
> abscess of MSX references Doh! \blush Cheers Apple.
krallja 5y ago
To my American eyes, it’s missing one of the three “Trinity” machines: the TRS-80 and all its descendants. It’s also exclusively focused on the 6502, rather than the 6800, 6809, Z80, 8008…
- ddingus 5y ago
  Yes, the different CPUs added a richness to this time period readers are very likely to find enjoyable as well as enlightening. Ahhh, the 6809! It's my favorite 8 bit CPU. If you've not given it a look, please reconsider. You are likely to benefit too. That chip is beautiful, and is a whole lot more powerful and elegant than one might expect an 8 bit CPU to be. Let me seed the content a little: (and the 6800 too, because why not?) Williams "DEFENDER" runs on a 6809 at 1Mhz, no blitter, no tiles, just a straight up bitmapped display. Here's a tutorial video with an expert player and a new gamer being introduced to the game. Lots of gems in their chatter and a good look at what an 8 bit CPU can really do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PEpDMgR9D0&t=293s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PEpDMgR9D0&t=293s Fun fact: DEFENDER plays one sound at a time, and the sound board is a 6800 (also a good CPU and missing from the list) connected right to a DAC to generate sound procedurally. Williams has a distinctive sound in all their classic games, and this board is why. Amazingly, DEFENDER was ported to the Color Computer 3, the sound board replaced with samples. Doing that worked better than I thought it might, and overall the game play is on point. This port impresses me because of how different the frame buffer RAM layout is, and the 6809 being flexible enough in it's many addressing modes appears to manage in both scenarios. Very little is lost. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI I hope to see one of the better players run the port, and or play it myself on a system one day soon. Here's a system I've always wanted: http://www.oldcomputers.net/swtpc-s09.html http://www.oldcomputers.net/swtpc-s09.html It's an 8bit workstation! 768K of RAM, nice storage, respectable terminal, expandable... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI They made respectable machines using both the 6800 and 6809 chips. The 6800 ended up in wonderful Tektronix computers and terminals. The computer was industrial, and intended for prototyping, science and industrial control and not commonly known. https://www.primidi.com/motorola_6800/personal_computers https://www.primidi.com/motorola_6800/personal_computers The terminals were well known, high resolution vector, and wait for it... CRT STORAGE TUBE displays! These delivered "4k" vector graphics in the 70's! The catch? No refresh cycles on the displays. Instead of blasting through all the vectors X times per second, these CRT displays would continue to glow, until erased for a new screen display. The 4051 came with tape, X,Y analog joystick or dials, keyboard, display, and serial ports, and a very powerful "BASIC" that had a strong emphasis on math and graphics. I used this system to program CNC machines back in the day, and what could be done in BASIC on one was impressive. Check out the demo set. These displays are beautiful and functional. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZsiR45tKKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZsiR45tKKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFfp8JHmFjA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFfp8JHmFjA
torgoguys 5y ago
It's a huge topic. It misses important American stuff too. For example, no mention of the third member of the 1977 Trinity--the TRS-80 (although the CoCo is mentioned in the Commodore section). But very nice for what it does cover! EDIT: sibling comment just beat me by a couple minutes to mentioning the Trinity. :-)

by Lio 5y ago

flatiron 5y ago

Oy! What about me speccy!

Lio 5y ago
I thought I'd covered that with Sinclair and compatibles ;) I'm actually more ashamed I missed off interesting stuff from Tulip, Dragon, Grundy, RM, Minitel and a whole host of others.

Lio 5y ago

> abscess of MSX references Doh! \blush Cheers Apple.

krallja 5y ago

To my American eyes, it’s missing one of the three “Trinity” machines: the TRS-80 and all its descendants. It’s also exclusively focused on the 6502, rather than the 6800, 6809, Z80, 8008…

ddingus 5y ago
Yes, the different CPUs added a richness to this time period readers are very likely to find enjoyable as well as enlightening. Ahhh, the 6809! It's my favorite 8 bit CPU. If you've not given it a look, please reconsider. You are likely to benefit too. That chip is beautiful, and is a whole lot more powerful and elegant than one might expect an 8 bit CPU to be. Let me seed the content a little: (and the 6800 too, because why not?) Williams "DEFENDER" runs on a 6809 at 1Mhz, no blitter, no tiles, just a straight up bitmapped display. Here's a tutorial video with an expert player and a new gamer being introduced to the game. Lots of gems in their chatter and a good look at what an 8 bit CPU can really do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PEpDMgR9D0&t=293s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PEpDMgR9D0&t=293s Fun fact: DEFENDER plays one sound at a time, and the sound board is a 6800 (also a good CPU and missing from the list) connected right to a DAC to generate sound procedurally. Williams has a distinctive sound in all their classic games, and this board is why. Amazingly, DEFENDER was ported to the Color Computer 3, the sound board replaced with samples. Doing that worked better than I thought it might, and overall the game play is on point. This port impresses me because of how different the frame buffer RAM layout is, and the 6809 being flexible enough in it's many addressing modes appears to manage in both scenarios. Very little is lost. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI I hope to see one of the better players run the port, and or play it myself on a system one day soon. Here's a system I've always wanted: http://www.oldcomputers.net/swtpc-s09.html http://www.oldcomputers.net/swtpc-s09.html It's an 8bit workstation! 768K of RAM, nice storage, respectable terminal, expandable... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI They made respectable machines using both the 6800 and 6809 chips. The 6800 ended up in wonderful Tektronix computers and terminals. The computer was industrial, and intended for prototyping, science and industrial control and not commonly known. https://www.primidi.com/motorola_6800/personal_computers https://www.primidi.com/motorola_6800/personal_computers The terminals were well known, high resolution vector, and wait for it... CRT STORAGE TUBE displays! These delivered "4k" vector graphics in the 70's! The catch? No refresh cycles on the displays. Instead of blasting through all the vectors X times per second, these CRT displays would continue to glow, until erased for a new screen display. The 4051 came with tape, X,Y analog joystick or dials, keyboard, display, and serial ports, and a very powerful "BASIC" that had a strong emphasis on math and graphics. I used this system to program CNC machines back in the day, and what could be done in BASIC on one was impressive. Check out the demo set. These displays are beautiful and functional. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZsiR45tKKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZsiR45tKKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFfp8JHmFjA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFfp8JHmFjA

torgoguys 5y ago

It's a huge topic. It misses important American stuff too. For example, no mention of the third member of the 1977 Trinity--the TRS-80 (although the CoCo is mentioned in the Commodore section). But very nice for what it does cover! EDIT: sibling comment just beat me by a couple minutes to mentioning the Trinity. :-)