4 ms·

What's funny is that you cite one survey when there are many surveys, with estimates wildly different from each other, while calling my rhetoric slanted. http:

by ygk8 15y ago

What's funny is that you cite one survey when there are many surveys, with estimates wildly different from each other, while calling my rhetoric slanted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War The two highest estimates, if you read their Wikipedia entries, are heavily criticized by peer reviewers. The actual death rates according to the CIA World Factbook, just to give you a comparison: USA: http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=us&v=26 http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=us&v=26 Iraq: http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=iz&v=26 http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=iz&v=26 Iraq isn't a war zone as many of you who have never visited might think.

Alex3917 15y ago
This is exactly the kind of shit I'm talking about. What exactly is the methodology behind the CIA's death rates? Oh wait, they don't give one. I wonder why. Perhaps because many/most of their statistics are complete bullshit. Here is the comment I wrote about their 'literacy statistics' just a couple days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2961076 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2961076
- ygk8 15y ago
  The same death rate figures are cited by UNICEF: http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/usa_statistics.html#78 http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/usa_statistics.html#78 http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/iraq_statistics.html#78 http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/iraq_statistics.html#78 The World Bank lists the same figures too: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.CDRT.IN http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.CDRT.IN Wikipedia also has the same death rate numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_United_States#Death_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_United_States#D... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Iraq#Death_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Iraq#Death_rate
  - Alex3917 15y ago
    And not a single one of the links you've just given are actually sources. Those figures come from the UN, but again no methodology is given. Are these figures actually independent and unbiased? We don't know. But we do know is that just last week the US ambassador to the UN said that the UN can't even issue so much as a press statement with the US agreement. http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/16/susan_rice_defends_the_un_on_colbert_report http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/16/susan_ri... http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Excel-Data/mortality.htm http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Excel-Data/mortality.htm
    - ahlatimer 15y ago
      It took a bit of digging, but here's a document on how the UN estimates mortality: http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/adultmort/Complete.pdf http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/adultmort/Comp... You're sort of taking the quote from the US ambassador to the UN out of context. The US ambassador to the UN said that the UN Security Council can't even issue so much as a press release without US agreement. Never mind that this may just have been hyperbole, but it would make sense that the UN Security Council may have trouble doing things without the backing of the world's most powerful military. It says nothing, really, about what the UN as a whole, or the body who forms the mortality statistics specifically, is capable of doing or not doing without US backing.
      - Alex3917 15y ago
        Fair point about the UN, but I think that isn't actually the methodology behind the mortality estimates. That's just an overview of different ways the UN gives for estimating mortality, but it doesn't actually provide any information on which of these (if any) the UN is using for each of the actual mortality statistics they list.

by ygk8 15y ago

Alex3917 15y ago

This is exactly the kind of shit I'm talking about. What exactly is the methodology behind the CIA's death rates? Oh wait, they don't give one. I wonder why. Perhaps because many/most of their statistics are complete bullshit. Here is the comment I wrote about their 'literacy statistics' just a couple days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2961076 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2961076

ygk8 15y ago
The same death rate figures are cited by UNICEF: http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/usa_statistics.html#78 http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/usa_statistics.html#78 http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/iraq_statistics.html#78 http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/iraq_statistics.html#78 The World Bank lists the same figures too: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.CDRT.IN http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.CDRT.IN Wikipedia also has the same death rate numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_United_States#Death_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_United_States#D... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Iraq#Death_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Iraq#Death_rate
- Alex3917 15y ago
  And not a single one of the links you've just given are actually sources. Those figures come from the UN, but again no methodology is given. Are these figures actually independent and unbiased? We don't know. But we do know is that just last week the US ambassador to the UN said that the UN can't even issue so much as a press statement with the US agreement. http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/16/susan_rice_defends_the_un_on_colbert_report http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/16/susan_ri... http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Excel-Data/mortality.htm http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Excel-Data/mortality.htm
  - ahlatimer 15y ago
    It took a bit of digging, but here's a document on how the UN estimates mortality: http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/adultmort/Complete.pdf http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/adultmort/Comp... You're sort of taking the quote from the US ambassador to the UN out of context. The US ambassador to the UN said that the UN Security Council can't even issue so much as a press release without US agreement. Never mind that this may just have been hyperbole, but it would make sense that the UN Security Council may have trouble doing things without the backing of the world's most powerful military. It says nothing, really, about what the UN as a whole, or the body who forms the mortality statistics specifically, is capable of doing or not doing without US backing.
    - Alex3917 15y ago
      Fair point about the UN, but I think that isn't actually the methodology behind the mortality estimates. That's just an overview of different ways the UN gives for estimating mortality, but it doesn't actually provide any information on which of these (if any) the UN is using for each of the actual mortality statistics they list.