6 ms·

New York Is Using Race to Determine Access to Covid Treatments

62 points by throwaway05112 5y ago

Barrin92 5y ago
- 0x7E3 5y ago
  I'm not sure how valid his argument is, but I don't think you are presenting it fairly. > Race is a statistical risk factor for covid because it correlates with numerous conditions like lower vaccination rates, higher obesity in some groups, worse medical care and so on. This is plainly stated in the article. As is the fact that people with medical conditions (like obesity, or things that are the result of poor medical care) are already prioritized. Vaccination status is not. His hypothesis seems to be that prioritizing non-white people is an attempt to prioritize unvaccinated people (seeing as the other risk factors are already being accounted for). He is claiming that it is more acceptable to exclude white people from the treatment than it is to say that you are giving preference to people who are unvaccinated.
- fakethenews2022 5y ago
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > these policies rely on statistical risk factors Should we then start separating whites from non-whites since the latter are more at risk of being desease carriers? Why not separate water fountains! And what about basing our policing on crime stats? Should we stop and frisk certain groups known to be statistically more inclined to commit criminal acts? > You don't go through a list of people and rank them individually. That's litterally what they are paid to do. It's called triage.
- polski-g 5y ago
  Using race as a factor requires strict scrutiny, which would mean race would have to be the best factor in determining treatment. But it's not. There are more specific factors like vaccination status and age. This is in violation of the NY state constitution and the federal one.
- fakethenews2022 5y ago
  Race correlates to both lower and higher vaccination rates. Asians (which isn't actually even a race) correlates to higher vaccination rates. https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest- https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-...
- fakethenews2022 5y ago
  Race correlates to both higher and lower obesity. https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html
- fakethenews2022 5y ago
  An argument is not a strawman argument if it is true. Greenwald did not say that a majority of liberals want to turn unvaccinated people from care. Trying to associate that argument with him would be a strawman argument.
torstenvl 5y ago
908B64B197 5y ago
This has to be satire.
- credit_guy 5y ago
  What do you mean? The article gives the link http://www.mssnyenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/122821_Notification_107774.pdf http://www.mssnyenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/122821_... The statement about race is the last bullet point on page 2.
diablozzq 5y ago
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-race-ethnicity.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investi... They are using race to preferentially treat higher risk groups of people. Sounds like the way you should treat people - higher risk first. Very click bait title.
- 0x7E3 5y ago
  The article goes into more detail, asserting that they are using race as a proxy for likelihood of being vaccinated.
- yucky 5y ago
- pixel_fcker 5y ago
  Men are more likely to die of COVID and more likely to be intubated. Should we start preferentially treating men over women? Why did they not include this advice as well?
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  Government shouldn't be making decisions based on race, period, full stop. Anything relevant to health should be decided by doctors, outside the purview of politicians and bureacrats.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> But with the Omicron variant now the dominant COVID strain in New York, both the city and state are facing severe shortages in the availability of effective antiviral monoclonal treatments With the Omicron variant now the dominant strain, the evidence is that there are no effective antiviral monoclonal treatments; there are two that seem to be exceptions, but neither one is available or even in trials in the US. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03829-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03829-0
- Proven 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
frazbin 5y ago
Yeah the right in the US has always preferred to pretend like racism is an abstract idea rather than an embodied institution, and that the civil rights acts of 1866 and 1964 didn't happen-- or if they did, that disparate impact isn't a doctrine and that reverse racism is a thing. The facts contradicting this position are self evident to everybody living in the United States, but feigning ignorance is a very popular political position at the highest and lowest levels. Just keep quiet, take your payout, and be glad you're not on the bottom rung. applies even to "poor whites" (and always has, even/especially antebellum). So naturally whenever things shake out such that 'poor whites' experience even the tiniest disadvantage, the banners are marshalled and the trumpet is blown. Nothing new under the sun. How about this: maybe we /should/ treat unvaxed minorities before unvaxed whites-- the latter group has infinitely more historical reason to trust these institutions. Or did I miss the bit where we shot Appalachians full of syphilis?
- _-david-_ 5y ago
  >Yeah the right in the US has always preferred to pretend like racism is an abstract idea Seeing how this is NY where the left had control and has had control for quite sometime, maybe they should try to actually fix it. >that reverse racism is a thing. Nobody believes reverse racism is a thing. There is only racism. >How about this: maybe we /should/ treat unvaxed minorities before unvaxed whites Seems like that would be continuing the institutional racism you are criticizing.
  - drekk 5y ago
    Democrats aren't the "left" by any stretch, the two parties are both wings of the same bird and it's amazing to see people pretend otherwise. They have the same corporate donors and belong to the same class. You have a center right corporate technocracy party and a far right blood and soil party. That's the best your "representative" (no universal suffrage until ~50 years ago when native women were allowed) democracy can offer as choices: slow violence or faster violence. If you think people can meaningfully be racist against white people in America, let's put aside the semantic nonsense and get into the difference between discrimination (something anyone can experience) like "haha crackers can't dance" and racism, such as being 3.64x more likely to be arrested for drug possession despite nearly identical usage rates (and being a minority of the population). Black and brown communities /are/ more vulnerable to COVID. Because the US is still de facto segregated, including in the "left" cities. We live in the consequence of redlining, and it's why "minority neighborhoods" have incredibly underfunded hospitals. Not to mention the very recent (one could argue still continuing) medical experimentation on minorities, like the Tuskegee Syphilis study, and maybe that would lead one to empathize with a hesitation to trust this country's medical institutions.
errcorrectcode 5y ago
vnchr 5y ago
Is this Critical Race Theory?
- yucky 5y ago
  No, Critical Race Theory is when you assign collective blame to a group of people based on the color of their skin. Think of how the Stormfront crowd will blame all black people for violent crime, rather than just the specific individuals committing the crimes. It's like that, but for white people. Collectivized guilt, with prescriptive policies using racial discrimination as an antidote. Probably the most noted proponent of CRT is Ibram X. Kendi, who famously noted: "The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination."

Barrin92 5y ago

0x7E3 5y ago
I'm not sure how valid his argument is, but I don't think you are presenting it fairly. > Race is a statistical risk factor for covid because it correlates with numerous conditions like lower vaccination rates, higher obesity in some groups, worse medical care and so on. This is plainly stated in the article. As is the fact that people with medical conditions (like obesity, or things that are the result of poor medical care) are already prioritized. Vaccination status is not. His hypothesis seems to be that prioritizing non-white people is an attempt to prioritize unvaccinated people (seeing as the other risk factors are already being accounted for). He is claiming that it is more acceptable to exclude white people from the treatment than it is to say that you are giving preference to people who are unvaccinated.
fakethenews2022 5y ago
908B64B197 5y ago
> these policies rely on statistical risk factors Should we then start separating whites from non-whites since the latter are more at risk of being desease carriers? Why not separate water fountains! And what about basing our policing on crime stats? Should we stop and frisk certain groups known to be statistically more inclined to commit criminal acts? > You don't go through a list of people and rank them individually. That's litterally what they are paid to do. It's called triage.
polski-g 5y ago
Using race as a factor requires strict scrutiny, which would mean race would have to be the best factor in determining treatment. But it's not. There are more specific factors like vaccination status and age. This is in violation of the NY state constitution and the federal one.
fakethenews2022 5y ago
Race correlates to both lower and higher vaccination rates. Asians (which isn't actually even a race) correlates to higher vaccination rates. https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest- https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-...
fakethenews2022 5y ago
Race correlates to both higher and lower obesity. https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html
fakethenews2022 5y ago
An argument is not a strawman argument if it is true. Greenwald did not say that a majority of liberals want to turn unvaccinated people from care. Trying to associate that argument with him would be a strawman argument.

torstenvl 5y ago

908B64B197 5y ago

This has to be satire.

credit_guy 5y ago
What do you mean? The article gives the link http://www.mssnyenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/122821_Notification_107774.pdf http://www.mssnyenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/122821_... The statement about race is the last bullet point on page 2.

diablozzq 5y ago

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-race-ethnicity.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investi... They are using race to preferentially treat higher risk groups of people. Sounds like the way you should treat people - higher risk first. Very click bait title.

0x7E3 5y ago
The article goes into more detail, asserting that they are using race as a proxy for likelihood of being vaccinated.
yucky 5y ago
pixel_fcker 5y ago
Men are more likely to die of COVID and more likely to be intubated. Should we start preferentially treating men over women? Why did they not include this advice as well?
robbedpeter 5y ago
Government shouldn't be making decisions based on race, period, full stop. Anything relevant to health should be decided by doctors, outside the purview of politicians and bureacrats.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> But with the Omicron variant now the dominant COVID strain in New York, both the city and state are facing severe shortages in the availability of effective antiviral monoclonal treatments With the Omicron variant now the dominant strain, the evidence is that there are no effective antiviral monoclonal treatments; there are two that seem to be exceptions, but neither one is available or even in trials in the US. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03829-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03829-0

Proven 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

frazbin 5y ago

Yeah the right in the US has always preferred to pretend like racism is an abstract idea rather than an embodied institution, and that the civil rights acts of 1866 and 1964 didn't happen-- or if they did, that disparate impact isn't a doctrine and that reverse racism is a thing. The facts contradicting this position are self evident to everybody living in the United States, but feigning ignorance is a very popular political position at the highest and lowest levels. Just keep quiet, take your payout, and be glad you're not on the bottom rung. applies even to "poor whites" (and always has, even/especially antebellum). So naturally whenever things shake out such that 'poor whites' experience even the tiniest disadvantage, the banners are marshalled and the trumpet is blown. Nothing new under the sun. How about this: maybe we /should/ treat unvaxed minorities before unvaxed whites-- the latter group has infinitely more historical reason to trust these institutions. Or did I miss the bit where we shot Appalachians full of syphilis?

_-david-_ 5y ago
>Yeah the right in the US has always preferred to pretend like racism is an abstract idea Seeing how this is NY where the left had control and has had control for quite sometime, maybe they should try to actually fix it. >that reverse racism is a thing. Nobody believes reverse racism is a thing. There is only racism. >How about this: maybe we /should/ treat unvaxed minorities before unvaxed whites Seems like that would be continuing the institutional racism you are criticizing.
- drekk 5y ago
  Democrats aren't the "left" by any stretch, the two parties are both wings of the same bird and it's amazing to see people pretend otherwise. They have the same corporate donors and belong to the same class. You have a center right corporate technocracy party and a far right blood and soil party. That's the best your "representative" (no universal suffrage until ~50 years ago when native women were allowed) democracy can offer as choices: slow violence or faster violence. If you think people can meaningfully be racist against white people in America, let's put aside the semantic nonsense and get into the difference between discrimination (something anyone can experience) like "haha crackers can't dance" and racism, such as being 3.64x more likely to be arrested for drug possession despite nearly identical usage rates (and being a minority of the population). Black and brown communities /are/ more vulnerable to COVID. Because the US is still de facto segregated, including in the "left" cities. We live in the consequence of redlining, and it's why "minority neighborhoods" have incredibly underfunded hospitals. Not to mention the very recent (one could argue still continuing) medical experimentation on minorities, like the Tuskegee Syphilis study, and maybe that would lead one to empathize with a hesitation to trust this country's medical institutions.

errcorrectcode 5y ago

vnchr 5y ago

Is this Critical Race Theory?

yucky 5y ago
No, Critical Race Theory is when you assign collective blame to a group of people based on the color of their skin. Think of how the Stormfront crowd will blame all black people for violent crime, rather than just the specific individuals committing the crimes. It's like that, but for white people. Collectivized guilt, with prescriptive policies using racial discrimination as an antidote. Probably the most noted proponent of CRT is Ibram X. Kendi, who famously noted: "The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination."