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> Would a person have difficulty being hired without a genealogical backstory? How? They don't need a genealogical backstory because you need to understand tha

> Would a person have difficulty being hired without a genealogical backstory? How? They don't need a genealogical backstory because you need to understand that the population of Upper Castes in India is actually in the minority (approximately 28%). You can say that the Degree of Separation between you and someone else is probably at best 2 or 3. You can easily find out if the person is who he claims he is by just checking social media and seeing his relations etc. If you want to fake your caste, you will have to get your entire relations to change their caste names. It is not realistically feasible. Like I said, the only solution to this is abolishing Caste System and bringing back the Varna System. Varnas were what it was originally. It was based on Vedic Scriptures. Caste System is a corruption of it and should be discarded. The sad part is that more than Upper Castes, the Caste system is highly prevalent in Lower Castes. We also have a Reservation System that guarantees a "Quota" for Lower Castes. So instead of abolishing we have ended up cementing the Caste System further. Please keep in mind that Reservation System is not the same as Affirmative Action in USA. It is completely different. However, if a Company is hiring based on your surname, then you really need to question if the Company is the right fit for you. Forget whether it is moral or not. Such Companies won't sustain for very long. If I am looking to hire, I want the best talent. I don't give two hoots to who you are, which Religion you profess, which Creed you belong to, which Caste you were born into or if you think i'll go to Hell. I care about bottom line. So I can go home richer than I was yesterday. Why would I want to deliberately sabotage it by focusing on surnames instead of talent? The Companies that do this won't survive for long. But to answer your question directly: I know Companies that have this culture. They are wrong and will pay for it sooner than later.

alkonaut 5y ago
I didn’t mean faking some small upper caste clique, but rather someone from a really “bad” caste simply getting rid of their backstory by assuming an identity in some very common caste. I couldn’t pretend to be royalty in Europe either. Such as when taking a new name - theirs are (surprise) not available to take. The difference is that while we have the small majority genealogical nobility in Europe too, the more problematic one to me is the opposite where people are born into lower castes. That’s what I’m wondering if someone in India could somehow get rid of (if they are willing to e.g move and break with family). Not if they could fake their way into the small top minority.
- KrishnaShripad 5y ago
  > some very common caste Per 2019 statistics [1], 41% of Indians belong to OBC or Other Backward Class. Dalits are 20%. Scheduled Tribes are 9%. Forward/Upper Caste is 30%. So which caste should they navigate to per your opinion? Also, is the person willing to give up all the benefits Constitution guarantees for lower castes? Especially give up Caste certificates that give scholarships, subsidies, affordable housing, Government jobs, Education quota etc? I don't think so. > taking a new name Even if you take a new name, Indians are by nature curious. We would like to know your background some way or the other. That fact of the matter is that it cannot happen unless the Caste System is itself abolished and Varna System adopted. But this change has to happen through society and not through Law (because if you try to do it through Law, Lower Castes will be the first to revolt as it will affect their Reservation Opportunities which they don't want to lose). This change will happen when Indians read translations of our scriptures written by Indian Sanskrit Experts and not Western Indologists (who took assistance from conniving upper castes in the medieval times as well as having their own self-interests). This requires a social change that should percolate to the grassroots (especially rural areas). Merely changing your name might only take you down the path for sometime. But sooner than later someone will discover your past somehow. It probably would have been possible 20-30 years ago when we had no internet and connectivity. Now everyone is on social media. You have a social graph available at your fingertips. There is no way to wipe off your past so to speak. This is probably possible with Personal Data Protection Bill that Indian Government might bring in sometime in the future. But until then, at least your digital footprint is left behind. [1]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1001016/india-population-share-by-caste/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1001016/india-population...
IndianFisherman 5y ago
Your entire comment reeks of upper caste privilege. How can you blame 70 year old practice of reservation compared to a 2000-year-old practice of caste discrimination towards cementing of the caste system. Reservation is to increase representation of the backward castes in the higher strata of society and not to help the "poor". All the Supreme Court Chief Justices have been Brahmins. There are barely 4 Bahujan ministers in the cabinet. Reservation is about more than mere "helping" those who are "underprivileged". Upper castes need to first understand that. This is not denying that politicians are exploiting the reservation system to gain votes and remain in power.
- KrishnaShripad 5y ago
  > How can you blame 70 year old practice of reservation I am not blaming it just for sake of it. I am saying that Reservation in India is not the same as Affirmative Action in USA. There is no Quota System in USA. Current Reservation in India is actually reverse discrimination. Even B R Ambedkar wanted Reservation to only last for 10 years and not more because of its obvious discriminatory nature. It is totally against Article 14 of Indian Constitution that guarantees Equality. Instead of Reservation we need something like Affirmative Action that USA has. I am not saying discrimination was not done by upper castes. It was done. The solution to that cannot be reverse discrimination. That is revenge. It is not justice. Instead provide equal opportunity for all and lift those who were suppressed due to discrimination with scholarships, funding, free/affordable housing, free education and healthcare. We need upliftment not another form of discrimination all over again. > All the Supreme Court Chief Justices have been Brahmins That's patently false. We have had Sarv Mittra Sikri (an SC) as Supreme Court Chief Justice. Chief Justice S Rajendra Babu was OBC. Chief Justice R. M. Lodha who was OBC. All 3 are non-Brahmin Bahujan Chief Justices. Apart from that we even have had Judges from minority Religion occupy Chief Justice position too. Full list of non-Brahmin Chief Justices of India (18 out of 44 or roughly 40% of Chief Justices of India were non-Brahmin): 1. Hon’ble Mr. Justice Harilal Jekisundas Kania 2. Hon’ble Mr. Justice M. Hidayatullah 3. Hon’ble Mr. Justice J.C. Shah 4. Hon’ble Mr. Justice S.M. Sikri 5. Hon’ble Mr. Justice M. Hameedullah Beg 6. Hon’ble Mr. Justice K.N. Singh 7. Hon’ble Mr. Justice A.M. Ahmadi 8. Hon’ble Mr. Justice J.S. Verma 9. Hon’ble Mr. Justice S.P. Bharucha 10. Hon’ble Mr. Justice B.N. Kirpal 11. Hon’ble Mr. Justice S. Rajendra Babu 12. Hon’ble Mr. Justice R.C. Lahoti 13. Hon’ble Mr. Justice Y.K. Sabharwal 14. Hon'ble Mr. Justice S.H. Kapadia 15. Hon'ble Mr. Justice Altamas Kabir 16. Hon'ble Mr. Justice R. M. Lodha 17. Hon'ble Mr. Justice T.S. Thakur 18. Hon'ble Mr. Justice J.S. Khehar > There are barely 4 Bahujan ministers in the cabinet We have had plenty of Bahujan ministers holding major portfolios since 1947. Our President is Dalit and our Prime Minister is OBC. Two of the most important positions in our Republic. What more do you need?

alkonaut 5y ago

I didn’t mean faking some small upper caste clique, but rather someone from a really “bad” caste simply getting rid of their backstory by assuming an identity in some very common caste. I couldn’t pretend to be royalty in Europe either. Such as when taking a new name - theirs are (surprise) not available to take. The difference is that while we have the small majority genealogical nobility in Europe too, the more problematic one to me is the opposite where people are born into lower castes. That’s what I’m wondering if someone in India could somehow get rid of (if they are willing to e.g move and break with family). Not if they could fake their way into the small top minority.

KrishnaShripad 5y ago
> some very common caste Per 2019 statistics [1], 41% of Indians belong to OBC or Other Backward Class. Dalits are 20%. Scheduled Tribes are 9%. Forward/Upper Caste is 30%. So which caste should they navigate to per your opinion? Also, is the person willing to give up all the benefits Constitution guarantees for lower castes? Especially give up Caste certificates that give scholarships, subsidies, affordable housing, Government jobs, Education quota etc? I don't think so. > taking a new name Even if you take a new name, Indians are by nature curious. We would like to know your background some way or the other. That fact of the matter is that it cannot happen unless the Caste System is itself abolished and Varna System adopted. But this change has to happen through society and not through Law (because if you try to do it through Law, Lower Castes will be the first to revolt as it will affect their Reservation Opportunities which they don't want to lose). This change will happen when Indians read translations of our scriptures written by Indian Sanskrit Experts and not Western Indologists (who took assistance from conniving upper castes in the medieval times as well as having their own self-interests). This requires a social change that should percolate to the grassroots (especially rural areas). Merely changing your name might only take you down the path for sometime. But sooner than later someone will discover your past somehow. It probably would have been possible 20-30 years ago when we had no internet and connectivity. Now everyone is on social media. You have a social graph available at your fingertips. There is no way to wipe off your past so to speak. This is probably possible with Personal Data Protection Bill that Indian Government might bring in sometime in the future. But until then, at least your digital footprint is left behind. [1]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1001016/india-population-share-by-caste/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1001016/india-population...

IndianFisherman 5y ago

Your entire comment reeks of upper caste privilege. How can you blame 70 year old practice of reservation compared to a 2000-year-old practice of caste discrimination towards cementing of the caste system. Reservation is to increase representation of the backward castes in the higher strata of society and not to help the "poor". All the Supreme Court Chief Justices have been Brahmins. There are barely 4 Bahujan ministers in the cabinet. Reservation is about more than mere "helping" those who are "underprivileged". Upper castes need to first understand that. This is not denying that politicians are exploiting the reservation system to gain votes and remain in power.

KrishnaShripad 5y ago
> How can you blame 70 year old practice of reservation I am not blaming it just for sake of it. I am saying that Reservation in India is not the same as Affirmative Action in USA. There is no Quota System in USA. Current Reservation in India is actually reverse discrimination. Even B R Ambedkar wanted Reservation to only last for 10 years and not more because of its obvious discriminatory nature. It is totally against Article 14 of Indian Constitution that guarantees Equality. Instead of Reservation we need something like Affirmative Action that USA has. I am not saying discrimination was not done by upper castes. It was done. The solution to that cannot be reverse discrimination. That is revenge. It is not justice. Instead provide equal opportunity for all and lift those who were suppressed due to discrimination with scholarships, funding, free/affordable housing, free education and healthcare. We need upliftment not another form of discrimination all over again. > All the Supreme Court Chief Justices have been Brahmins That's patently false. We have had Sarv Mittra Sikri (an SC) as Supreme Court Chief Justice. Chief Justice S Rajendra Babu was OBC. Chief Justice R. M. Lodha who was OBC. All 3 are non-Brahmin Bahujan Chief Justices. Apart from that we even have had Judges from minority Religion occupy Chief Justice position too. Full list of non-Brahmin Chief Justices of India (18 out of 44 or roughly 40% of Chief Justices of India were non-Brahmin): 1. Hon’ble Mr. Justice Harilal Jekisundas Kania 2. Hon’ble Mr. Justice M. Hidayatullah 3. Hon’ble Mr. Justice J.C. Shah 4. Hon’ble Mr. Justice S.M. Sikri 5. Hon’ble Mr. Justice M. Hameedullah Beg 6. Hon’ble Mr. Justice K.N. Singh 7. Hon’ble Mr. Justice A.M. Ahmadi 8. Hon’ble Mr. Justice J.S. Verma 9. Hon’ble Mr. Justice S.P. Bharucha 10. Hon’ble Mr. Justice B.N. Kirpal 11. Hon’ble Mr. Justice S. Rajendra Babu 12. Hon’ble Mr. Justice R.C. Lahoti 13. Hon’ble Mr. Justice Y.K. Sabharwal 14. Hon'ble Mr. Justice S.H. Kapadia 15. Hon'ble Mr. Justice Altamas Kabir 16. Hon'ble Mr. Justice R. M. Lodha 17. Hon'ble Mr. Justice T.S. Thakur 18. Hon'ble Mr. Justice J.S. Khehar > There are barely 4 Bahujan ministers in the cabinet We have had plenty of Bahujan ministers holding major portfolios since 1947. Our President is Dalit and our Prime Minister is OBC. Two of the most important positions in our Republic. What more do you need?