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Let's see, the global world has brought us international commerce, free exchange of information (95% of a CS curriculum is based on things created in the West)

Let's see, the global world has brought us international commerce, free exchange of information (95% of a CS curriculum is based on things created in the West), the possibility(limited but existent) of studying and working in a different society, international agreements, standards and organizations. Tribalism has brought us, wars, petty disputes, populist politicians and bigotry. I know which one I would choose in a heartbeat.

jaldhar 5y ago
Why is it either/or? Immigrants often get a leg up in "working in a different society" by taking advantage of kinship based support networks. The have nots of global society try to attain social justice through tribalist notions of identity. And so on. I would say most people all over the world maintain a weak form of particularist identity and a weak notion of global identity and simply don't think about the contradictions.
- Ostrogodsky 5y ago
  That all is true, but I was not the one who created the dilemma, the original parent did. Tribalism like nationalism is good just in very small doses.
- magpi3 5y ago
  I think there is a different between enjoying a shared cultural identity and tribalism. I am currently in China and as an American I stick out like a sore thumb. But most people are very polite to me, and even though we have our cultural differences (and the social consequences that come with them), we recognize each other as human beings, eat together, work together, etc. I don't view the lack of ethnic or cultural kinship as tribalism, and of course I am aware that I am excluded from certain social networks. But at the end of the day, although there are differences between us, but we are part of the same local community. Tribalism, by my definition at least, comes when the foreigner (whether ethnically or ideologically) is seen as not just an outsider but also as a competitor or a threat. In extreme situations perhaps they are, but in a civil society properly governed by the rule of law, this kind of tribalism is just poison for a community.
aksss 5y ago
Empire (which I’d put in the tribal side) brought international commerce, peace, standards, etc, I should think. You’re making many generalizations to rationalize a hopeful faith in globalization, and ignoring many profound negatives. Tribalism also has bad outcomes, but as others have said it wouldn’t be an inclination if it didn’t have evolutionary value. I’d go further and say that because it’s an evolved inclination, we’re far less immune to it than we’d like to think - that tribalism and globalization form a false dichotomy; you can have both. I.e. tribalism within a framework of international cooperation or a global empire as the will of a tribe (or alliance of a few tribes). The post-war global order is a very new thing, depends on a delicate power balance enforced by continual threat of war - buy in or die is hardly what you probably want to endorse when you champion globalization, but there’s a degree of that at work since the end of WWII. Growing up a Roman citizen makes you kinda partial to the global benefits of empire. If you disagree with Rome, you realize it’s not all peaches and cream. What’s different in the modern world we live in is more the scale of the tribes than a lack of tribes. But sitting in Rome, you think all the world is Rome.

jaldhar 5y ago

Why is it either/or? Immigrants often get a leg up in "working in a different society" by taking advantage of kinship based support networks. The have nots of global society try to attain social justice through tribalist notions of identity. And so on. I would say most people all over the world maintain a weak form of particularist identity and a weak notion of global identity and simply don't think about the contradictions.

Ostrogodsky 5y ago
That all is true, but I was not the one who created the dilemma, the original parent did. Tribalism like nationalism is good just in very small doses.
magpi3 5y ago
I think there is a different between enjoying a shared cultural identity and tribalism. I am currently in China and as an American I stick out like a sore thumb. But most people are very polite to me, and even though we have our cultural differences (and the social consequences that come with them), we recognize each other as human beings, eat together, work together, etc. I don't view the lack of ethnic or cultural kinship as tribalism, and of course I am aware that I am excluded from certain social networks. But at the end of the day, although there are differences between us, but we are part of the same local community. Tribalism, by my definition at least, comes when the foreigner (whether ethnically or ideologically) is seen as not just an outsider but also as a competitor or a threat. In extreme situations perhaps they are, but in a civil society properly governed by the rule of law, this kind of tribalism is just poison for a community.

aksss 5y ago

Empire (which I’d put in the tribal side) brought international commerce, peace, standards, etc, I should think. You’re making many generalizations to rationalize a hopeful faith in globalization, and ignoring many profound negatives. Tribalism also has bad outcomes, but as others have said it wouldn’t be an inclination if it didn’t have evolutionary value. I’d go further and say that because it’s an evolved inclination, we’re far less immune to it than we’d like to think - that tribalism and globalization form a false dichotomy; you can have both. I.e. tribalism within a framework of international cooperation or a global empire as the will of a tribe (or alliance of a few tribes). The post-war global order is a very new thing, depends on a delicate power balance enforced by continual threat of war - buy in or die is hardly what you probably want to endorse when you champion globalization, but there’s a degree of that at work since the end of WWII. Growing up a Roman citizen makes you kinda partial to the global benefits of empire. If you disagree with Rome, you realize it’s not all peaches and cream. What’s different in the modern world we live in is more the scale of the tribes than a lack of tribes. But sitting in Rome, you think all the world is Rome.