6 ms·

I was mind blown when I found my Indian friend fully supports caste system, that was like finding out your old and closest friend is KKK member and fully suppor

I was mind blown when I found my Indian friend fully supports caste system, that was like finding out your old and closest friend is KKK member and fully supports it.

SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
I'm assuming your friend is in one of the "forward" castes?
- dilawar 5y ago
  That goes without saying. Indian here (born in high caste family, though in rural India). Rural folks are a bit more crazy about caste than urban folks but much more tolerant of different religions compared to them.
  - techsin101 5y ago
    Now that I think about it, I remember seeing his family photos of village, so his parents must be from rural background.
jaldhar 5y ago
Why would that be? A caste is an extended family. It certainly can be an instrument of oppression but it doesn't have to be and for most it isn't. Are you one of those Americans who think any expression of e.g. White/Southern pride is a sign of KKK racism? I mean it could be but some people just enjoy being Southern. "Caste System" in India is like "Patriarchy" or "Structural Racism" in the West. Some people are very invested in the idea. Some think it is one of several factors. Some argue it is an invalid concept and some just say la la I'm not listening.
- techsin101 5y ago
  No I mean exactly what it means, caste system as in some people deserve to be rulers and we need someone to clean toilets. And it shall be determined via your caste, birth, over which you have no say.
  - jaldhar 5y ago
    Well that doesn’t accurately describe the state of affairs in historical India so there’s not much more I can say.
    - sumedh 5y ago
      https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/upper-caste-students-boycott-midday-meal-cooked-by-dalit-woman-in-uttarakhand-s-champawat-101640025089951.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/upper-caste-studen...
      - jaldhar 5y ago
        That is specifically about food. OP was talking about jobs in general. If you survey Indian history you can find examples of castes or individuals taking up new professions over time. Take “rulers” for instance. How many dynasties have been non-Rajput? Some of them did try to paper over their origins by retroactively claiming Kshatriya status but others did not. What I am pushing back against is the idea that there is one static monolithic hierarchical “caste system” that explains Indian society. Reality is more complex.
- sumedh 5y ago
  > and for most it isn't. 70% Indians are from the lower caste.
  - jaldhar 5y ago
    No 70% are from demographics that qualify for affirmative action and other aid from the government. (Categories that are themselves subject to political manipulation.). That’s not the same thing. How then do you define “lower”? Ritual status? Socioeconomic influence? Material wealth? Feeling lower? In each case some of that 70% would qualify and some would not. Some of the 30% would qualify and some would not.
manquer 5y ago
It is not surprising, A lot of racists are on the surface nice and polite and wouldn't publicly identify as racists. KKK members used to wear a mask in public after all. While it is much harder for you to see the signs as you won't have the cultural context for this, for another indian it would be easy to identify such behaviour.
known 5y ago

I was mind blown when I found my Indian friend fully supports caste system, that was like finding out your old and closest friend is KKK member and fully supports it.

SturgeonsLaw 5y ago

I'm assuming your friend is in one of the "forward" castes?

dilawar 5y ago
That goes without saying. Indian here (born in high caste family, though in rural India). Rural folks are a bit more crazy about caste than urban folks but much more tolerant of different religions compared to them.
- techsin101 5y ago
  Now that I think about it, I remember seeing his family photos of village, so his parents must be from rural background.

jaldhar 5y ago

Why would that be? A caste is an extended family. It certainly can be an instrument of oppression but it doesn't have to be and for most it isn't. Are you one of those Americans who think any expression of e.g. White/Southern pride is a sign of KKK racism? I mean it could be but some people just enjoy being Southern. "Caste System" in India is like "Patriarchy" or "Structural Racism" in the West. Some people are very invested in the idea. Some think it is one of several factors. Some argue it is an invalid concept and some just say la la I'm not listening.

techsin101 5y ago
No I mean exactly what it means, caste system as in some people deserve to be rulers and we need someone to clean toilets. And it shall be determined via your caste, birth, over which you have no say.
- jaldhar 5y ago
  Well that doesn’t accurately describe the state of affairs in historical India so there’s not much more I can say.
  - sumedh 5y ago
    https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/upper-caste-students-boycott-midday-meal-cooked-by-dalit-woman-in-uttarakhand-s-champawat-101640025089951.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/upper-caste-studen...
    - jaldhar 5y ago
      That is specifically about food. OP was talking about jobs in general. If you survey Indian history you can find examples of castes or individuals taking up new professions over time. Take “rulers” for instance. How many dynasties have been non-Rajput? Some of them did try to paper over their origins by retroactively claiming Kshatriya status but others did not. What I am pushing back against is the idea that there is one static monolithic hierarchical “caste system” that explains Indian society. Reality is more complex.
sumedh 5y ago
> and for most it isn't. 70% Indians are from the lower caste.
- jaldhar 5y ago
  No 70% are from demographics that qualify for affirmative action and other aid from the government. (Categories that are themselves subject to political manipulation.). That’s not the same thing. How then do you define “lower”? Ritual status? Socioeconomic influence? Material wealth? Feeling lower? In each case some of that 70% would qualify and some would not. Some of the 30% would qualify and some would not.

manquer 5y ago

It is not surprising, A lot of racists are on the surface nice and polite and wouldn't publicly identify as racists. KKK members used to wear a mask in public after all. While it is much harder for you to see the signs as you won't have the cultural context for this, for another indian it would be easy to identify such behaviour.

known 5y ago