3 ms·

> above all else, never talk negatively about a teacher in front of your child. If he knows you don't respect her, he won't either, and that will lead to a whol

by kemayo 15y ago

> above all else, never talk negatively about a teacher in front of your child. If he knows you don't respect her, he won't either, and that will lead to a whole host of new problems. I don't want my child to view their teacher as an authority figure who cannot be questioned and cannot make a mistake. I'm not going to deliberately undermine the teacher, and I'll certainly give full consideration to their arguments, but if I wind up disagreeing with them then I'm not going to pretend that I believe my child was in the wrong just for the sake of maintaining the teacher's authority. > One of my biggest pet peeves is when I tell a mom something her son did and she turns, looks at him and asks, "Is that true?" Well, of course it's true. I just told you. "Is that true?" is a confrontational way of saying it... but what's wrong with getting the other side of the story? I should just assume that you were right? Even assuming that you were telling the truth as you saw it, that doesn't mean you're not wrong.

wyclif 15y ago
I don't want my child to view their teacher as an authority figure who cannot be questioned and cannot make a mistake. Erm, I think this rather misses the point completely. The point is not that teachers are perfect and don't make mistakes-- of course they aren't. The point is that teachers used to be invested with vocational authority. In certain Asian cultures, children stand up when the teacher or sensei enters the classroom, and his authority is not questionable by a child. In America especially, the vocation of teacher has been denigrated so much now that they are often viewed as glorified nannies or babysitters. I don't blame young people for avoiding the profession altogether in today's milieu in the West. There are certainly far more remunerative and respectable things to do with your life, which is a shame because teaching the next generation can be very rewarding.
- tokenadult 15y ago
  In certain Asian cultures, children stand up when the teacher or sensei enters the classroom, and his authority is not questionable by a child. My wife grew up in one of those cultures, and she observes that that cultural attitude allowed a lot of petty tyranny on the part of teachers. She much prefers the attitude in the United States that teachers have to earn their respect. She is a teacher by occupation--a private piano teacher--and she can meet the expectations of demanding clients. I am a teacher also--a teacher of optional group classes in advanced mathematics for young learners--and I would be ashamed to have to insist on respect before I have earned that respect.
  - wyclif 15y ago
    You've just illustrated why I will never again take a job as a K-12 teacher in the US. In other countries? Maybe. But not in the US. And you've missed my point. It's not about earning respect (of course you have to do that-- as does anyone in any job), it's about occupational respect starting on the first day of school. This thread shows how little of that there is left for teachers in the U.S. I fail to be surprised that young people find a different profession where respect is a given, like software development.
- kemayo 15y ago
  > Erm, I think this rather misses the point completely. I suspect that we have fundamental disconnect between us on the bounds of authority in education. However... > his authority is not questionable by a child Sure, a child should behave respectfully towards their teacher, and shouldn't test the bounds of the teacher's authority without reason. But it's a conditional relationship. If the teacher fails on their end, the child is not required to continue to uphold their end. I agree with a lot of things the article says. He provides a lot of examples of parents doing legitimately stupid things, and entering into an adversarial relationship with a teacher without reason. I just take issue with the one or two bits where he asks that parents automatically take his word. Sending your child the message that you will always trust an arbitrary authority figure without even considering their side of the story? That's dumb.
- Helianthus 15y ago
  >In certain Asian cultures, children stand up when the teacher or sensei enters the classroom, and his authority is not questionable by a child. Which is a rather dangerous attitude, I think, to entrench in a child. It is a cultural difference (obviously, as I'm an American) but an important one that I value: free-spirited individuality does not do well when one unquestionably bends. One of the most admirable traits of the American education system is, in my mind, that it teaches disrespect of authority and the system, even if half the time it is by the accident of incompetence. I'm imagining someone rebutting with talk of the Pledge of Allegiance in the schools. In my mind that is a perfect example: I don't know about you, but enough talk was given to that _you did not have to say it if you didn't want to_ that it was in fact an abject lesson in _choosing to conform._ Those who pointedly did not faced some amount of ridicule learned how to earn their independence, that it was not free and would not make them popular. In the end the message I received from the topic of the Pledge was 1) you are free to choose to acknowledge the authority of the flag, and 2) the cost of exercising that freedom is high. These two unrelenting and possibly harsh truths have served me well. We teach our intellectuals and outsiders how to take the strength of nonconformity for themselves.
  - wyclif 15y ago
    I find it not such a dangerous attitude, especially in the context of American educational failure and the relative success of Asian education.
  - shard 15y ago
    There's a difference between questioning authority and disrespecting authority. I agree that one should question authority, but if you start a relationship from a position of disrespect, the relationship can go nowhere but down. There is also a difference between questioning the teacher as a person versus questioning the material he teaches. The students may not agree with some of the material, but most of the time the teacher is someone who's underpaid, and works way too hard to try to give them knowledge to give them a better life and to help them succeed, often times to lift them out of a life of poverty and low skilled labor. You can question his methods, his material, but to question his intentions can be going too far.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
Caballera 15y ago
I think if you read what he wrote and thought about it, he's not saying don't ever talk negatively about a teacher, he's just stating that you shouldn't do so in front of your child. Just as one parent shouldn't talk negatively about another parent in front of a child.
jxcole 15y ago
> I don't want my child to view their teacher as an authority figure who cannot be questioned and cannot make a mistake. I have a boss at work who I respect. However, if he throws a mysql query on the board with an error you bet I'll point it out right to his face. It is human to err, and he does it to. But the attitudes of parents described in this article indicates that they do not expect their kids to respect their teachers. This would sort of be like my boss asking me to do something and me saying no. Except in very odd circumstances, this behaviour would be totally inappropriate on my part. I would expect my children to treat teachers with respect. Of course they may occasionally question the accuracy of a teacher's statements but the teacher is in charge in the classroom; I would expect my child to understand that and I would never demean a teacher's authority in front of my child.

by kemayo 15y ago

wyclif 15y ago

I don't want my child to view their teacher as an authority figure who cannot be questioned and cannot make a mistake. Erm, I think this rather misses the point completely. The point is not that teachers are perfect and don't make mistakes-- of course they aren't. The point is that teachers used to be invested with vocational authority. In certain Asian cultures, children stand up when the teacher or sensei enters the classroom, and his authority is not questionable by a child. In America especially, the vocation of teacher has been denigrated so much now that they are often viewed as glorified nannies or babysitters. I don't blame young people for avoiding the profession altogether in today's milieu in the West. There are certainly far more remunerative and respectable things to do with your life, which is a shame because teaching the next generation can be very rewarding.

tokenadult 15y ago
In certain Asian cultures, children stand up when the teacher or sensei enters the classroom, and his authority is not questionable by a child. My wife grew up in one of those cultures, and she observes that that cultural attitude allowed a lot of petty tyranny on the part of teachers. She much prefers the attitude in the United States that teachers have to earn their respect. She is a teacher by occupation--a private piano teacher--and she can meet the expectations of demanding clients. I am a teacher also--a teacher of optional group classes in advanced mathematics for young learners--and I would be ashamed to have to insist on respect before I have earned that respect.
- wyclif 15y ago
  You've just illustrated why I will never again take a job as a K-12 teacher in the US. In other countries? Maybe. But not in the US. And you've missed my point. It's not about earning respect (of course you have to do that-- as does anyone in any job), it's about occupational respect starting on the first day of school. This thread shows how little of that there is left for teachers in the U.S. I fail to be surprised that young people find a different profession where respect is a given, like software development.
kemayo 15y ago
> Erm, I think this rather misses the point completely. I suspect that we have fundamental disconnect between us on the bounds of authority in education. However... > his authority is not questionable by a child Sure, a child should behave respectfully towards their teacher, and shouldn't test the bounds of the teacher's authority without reason. But it's a conditional relationship. If the teacher fails on their end, the child is not required to continue to uphold their end. I agree with a lot of things the article says. He provides a lot of examples of parents doing legitimately stupid things, and entering into an adversarial relationship with a teacher without reason. I just take issue with the one or two bits where he asks that parents automatically take his word. Sending your child the message that you will always trust an arbitrary authority figure without even considering their side of the story? That's dumb.
Helianthus 15y ago
>In certain Asian cultures, children stand up when the teacher or sensei enters the classroom, and his authority is not questionable by a child. Which is a rather dangerous attitude, I think, to entrench in a child. It is a cultural difference (obviously, as I'm an American) but an important one that I value: free-spirited individuality does not do well when one unquestionably bends. One of the most admirable traits of the American education system is, in my mind, that it teaches disrespect of authority and the system, even if half the time it is by the accident of incompetence. I'm imagining someone rebutting with talk of the Pledge of Allegiance in the schools. In my mind that is a perfect example: I don't know about you, but enough talk was given to that _you did not have to say it if you didn't want to_ that it was in fact an abject lesson in _choosing to conform._ Those who pointedly did not faced some amount of ridicule learned how to earn their independence, that it was not free and would not make them popular. In the end the message I received from the topic of the Pledge was 1) you are free to choose to acknowledge the authority of the flag, and 2) the cost of exercising that freedom is high. These two unrelenting and possibly harsh truths have served me well. We teach our intellectuals and outsiders how to take the strength of nonconformity for themselves.
- wyclif 15y ago
  I find it not such a dangerous attitude, especially in the context of American educational failure and the relative success of Asian education.
- shard 15y ago
  There's a difference between questioning authority and disrespecting authority. I agree that one should question authority, but if you start a relationship from a position of disrespect, the relationship can go nowhere but down. There is also a difference between questioning the teacher as a person versus questioning the material he teaches. The students may not agree with some of the material, but most of the time the teacher is someone who's underpaid, and works way too hard to try to give them knowledge to give them a better life and to help them succeed, often times to lift them out of a life of poverty and low skilled labor. You can question his methods, his material, but to question his intentions can be going too far.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

Caballera 15y ago

I think if you read what he wrote and thought about it, he's not saying don't ever talk negatively about a teacher, he's just stating that you shouldn't do so in front of your child. Just as one parent shouldn't talk negatively about another parent in front of a child.

jxcole 15y ago

> I don't want my child to view their teacher as an authority figure who cannot be questioned and cannot make a mistake. I have a boss at work who I respect. However, if he throws a mysql query on the board with an error you bet I'll point it out right to his face. It is human to err, and he does it to. But the attitudes of parents described in this article indicates that they do not expect their kids to respect their teachers. This would sort of be like my boss asking me to do something and me saying no. Except in very odd circumstances, this behaviour would be totally inappropriate on my part. I would expect my children to treat teachers with respect. Of course they may occasionally question the accuracy of a teacher's statements but the teacher is in charge in the classroom; I would expect my child to understand that and I would never demean a teacher's authority in front of my child.