6 ms·

It saddens me that this is even necessary. On one hand I want to say "kudos!" for recognizing the inherent hazard to their staff, but the cynical side of me als

It saddens me that this is even necessary. On one hand I want to say "kudos!" for recognizing the inherent hazard to their staff, but the cynical side of me also says "is avoiding cancellations worth flight attendants risking their health or safety?" I don't have an answer. Food for thought. For myself I don't think there's enough hazard pay available to get me on a plane with a bunch of stressed out people who just spent their maskless holiday travelling with strangers and to maskless family gatherings, whether masks are required on the aircraft or not.

generalizations 5y ago
Seems like it was left up to the flight attendants themselves (and union) to decide. They probably have a decent idea of what risk/reward ratio they're comfortable with.
londons_explore 5y ago
Flight attendants are already significantly more likely to get cancer: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5865289/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5865289/ I wonder how the COVID risk compares?
- dnautics 5y ago
  Isn't that most likely due to radiation?
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    Seems likely, although as the paper points out, there are a few other possible causes too, like use of pretty powerful insecticides on many routes.
    - dnautics 5y ago
      Sure, if I had to guess something that wasn't radiation, I'd guess stress, which I would guess could depress your immune system and make you more susceptible to C19
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
      The air in a pressurized aircraft cabin is often unhealthy also, due to contamination with lubricants/hydraulic fluids in the engine bleed air.
      - bobthepanda 5y ago
        the unorthodox sleep schedules required to fit flight schedules is also probably a contributing factor. night shifts and irregular schedules have been correlated with negative health outcomes for a long time.
      - laurent92 5y ago
        Please call this “fume events”, as the risk is desperately concentrated on a few flights in a dozen years, and fume events are not yet recognized as events (“just renew the air and no-one will see” - while we have amateur testimonials that people get conditions for life after such events).
        hammock 5y ago
        Where can I read more about this?
eej71 5y ago
As far as I can determine, once you are vaccinated, the risk of serious illness drops down considerably. So much so that (from what I can assess), you are effectively back in range of "its just the flu". No?
- yardie 5y ago
  It’s still a nonzero risk of catching it and it being fatal. And there is the lost opportunity in being positive, having to isolate, and not having income above your base pay.
  - eej71 5y ago
    I think a bump in pay makes a lot of sense - but I sometimes get the sense that there's a large disconnect between what people _feel_ the risk profile is (with vaccines) vs. what the actual risk profile is. From my standpoint, vaccines have transformed the risk profile back into the usual background noise of everyday life. It's perhaps slightly worse than the usual flu season, but nothing to be overly alarmed with. It makes sense for organizations to have plans for a drop in staffing availability. But to charactertize that as putting people's lives at risk seems... over the top to me.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    Same is true of H3N2 and other flu variants. “Zero risk” is not a reasonable threshold for routine life decisions, IMO.
    - mlyle 5y ago
      Zero risk isn't. But the risk picture right now is crummy. I'm a teacher and 42 years old. I think the risk, if I catch it, being vaccinated and fully boosted, is about 3x the risk from infleunza. And I have a substantially higher chance of catching it than influenza in any given timespan with how high case counts are. But even more than that: I can shoulder that risk. But when you stack the risk of all the disruption that would come with a mild infection, things are really crummy now. Then there's the worst thing: my dad is immunocompromised. He's vaccinated and boosted, but one can assume the efficacy is even worse for him. So, effectively, while I'm teaching and case counts are high, I can't see him.
snuze 5y ago
- stepbeek 5y ago
  > You seem to think masks matter Do they not?
  - spaceisballer 5y ago
    People in my county have given up with masks. We are maybe 60% vaccinated but I feel there is a false sense of security because of the low population density. It’s so easy to wear a mask and give yourself protection, but you also have the added problem that people don’t seem to understand how to fit a mask properly either.
- meling 5y ago
  Nasal cleansing sounds interesting. Where can I read more about it? How often would you need to cleans and what’s the cost? Is this recommended in the US? How is it different from traditional nasal spray for stuffed nose?
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    It’s not recommended in US but apparently it’s big in Thailand, some 80% of the population making use of it as a part of traditional medicine (Hatha Yoga) - Thailand was famously doing very well for the first year (low case rates), but apparently they have since caught up. One article with lots of interesting stats (get your Adblock ready): https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis/story/did-nasal-rinsing-help-asean-control-pandemic-or-swift-action-1703801-2020-07-24 https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis/story/did-nasal-rins... General details on the practice: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neti_(Hatha_Yoga) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neti_(Hatha_Yoga)
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      Usually it is not recommended due to the risk of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naegleria_fowleri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naegleria_fowleri
ErikVandeWater 5y ago
> "is avoiding cancellations worth flight attendants risking their health or safety?" It seems you are disproportionately concerned with Covid as opposed to other occupational hazards. There's a lot of jobs that are dangerous, and being a flight attendant isn't one of them.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  I don't know if it's 'dangerous' but it is certainly extremely unhealthy. https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/flight-attendant-unhealthy-job-risks https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/flight-at...
  - ErikVandeWater 5y ago
    I'd trust that if it gave Business Insider gave a methodology that wasn't absurdly vague. And in the top three hazards listed for flight attendants is "Exposure to minor burns, cuts, bites, or stings." That's not threatening to the health of anyone familiar with bandaids and Neosporin.
    - 813594 5y ago
      Most dermatologists do not recommend Neosporin. https://www.newportbeachdps.com/polysporin-instead-neosporin/ https://www.newportbeachdps.com/polysporin-instead-neosporin...
- michaelt 5y ago
  Presumably flight attendants' jobs became substantially more challenging when so many Americans want to take off their mask, and it's the flight attendants that have to get them to keep them on.
tandymodel100 5y ago
If they are vaccinated and boosted their health risks are minimal.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
smabie 5y ago
You're saying there's no amount of money for which you would do that? I am highly skeptical

generalizations 5y ago

Seems like it was left up to the flight attendants themselves (and union) to decide. They probably have a decent idea of what risk/reward ratio they're comfortable with.

londons_explore 5y ago

Flight attendants are already significantly more likely to get cancer: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5865289/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5865289/ I wonder how the COVID risk compares?

dnautics 5y ago
Isn't that most likely due to radiation?
- londons_explore 5y ago
  Seems likely, although as the paper points out, there are a few other possible causes too, like use of pretty powerful insecticides on many routes.
  - dnautics 5y ago
    Sure, if I had to guess something that wasn't radiation, I'd guess stress, which I would guess could depress your immune system and make you more susceptible to C19
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    The air in a pressurized aircraft cabin is often unhealthy also, due to contamination with lubricants/hydraulic fluids in the engine bleed air.
    - bobthepanda 5y ago
      the unorthodox sleep schedules required to fit flight schedules is also probably a contributing factor. night shifts and irregular schedules have been correlated with negative health outcomes for a long time.
    - laurent92 5y ago
      Please call this “fume events”, as the risk is desperately concentrated on a few flights in a dozen years, and fume events are not yet recognized as events (“just renew the air and no-one will see” - while we have amateur testimonials that people get conditions for life after such events).
      - hammock 5y ago
        Where can I read more about this?

eej71 5y ago

As far as I can determine, once you are vaccinated, the risk of serious illness drops down considerably. So much so that (from what I can assess), you are effectively back in range of "its just the flu". No?

yardie 5y ago
It’s still a nonzero risk of catching it and it being fatal. And there is the lost opportunity in being positive, having to isolate, and not having income above your base pay.
- eej71 5y ago
  I think a bump in pay makes a lot of sense - but I sometimes get the sense that there's a large disconnect between what people _feel_ the risk profile is (with vaccines) vs. what the actual risk profile is. From my standpoint, vaccines have transformed the risk profile back into the usual background noise of everyday life. It's perhaps slightly worse than the usual flu season, but nothing to be overly alarmed with. It makes sense for organizations to have plans for a drop in staffing availability. But to charactertize that as putting people's lives at risk seems... over the top to me.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Same is true of H3N2 and other flu variants. “Zero risk” is not a reasonable threshold for routine life decisions, IMO.
  - mlyle 5y ago
    Zero risk isn't. But the risk picture right now is crummy. I'm a teacher and 42 years old. I think the risk, if I catch it, being vaccinated and fully boosted, is about 3x the risk from infleunza. And I have a substantially higher chance of catching it than influenza in any given timespan with how high case counts are. But even more than that: I can shoulder that risk. But when you stack the risk of all the disruption that would come with a mild infection, things are really crummy now. Then there's the worst thing: my dad is immunocompromised. He's vaccinated and boosted, but one can assume the efficacy is even worse for him. So, effectively, while I'm teaching and case counts are high, I can't see him.

snuze 5y ago

stepbeek 5y ago
> You seem to think masks matter Do they not?
- spaceisballer 5y ago
  People in my county have given up with masks. We are maybe 60% vaccinated but I feel there is a false sense of security because of the low population density. It’s so easy to wear a mask and give yourself protection, but you also have the added problem that people don’t seem to understand how to fit a mask properly either.
meling 5y ago
Nasal cleansing sounds interesting. Where can I read more about it? How often would you need to cleans and what’s the cost? Is this recommended in the US? How is it different from traditional nasal spray for stuffed nose?
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  It’s not recommended in US but apparently it’s big in Thailand, some 80% of the population making use of it as a part of traditional medicine (Hatha Yoga) - Thailand was famously doing very well for the first year (low case rates), but apparently they have since caught up. One article with lots of interesting stats (get your Adblock ready): https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis/story/did-nasal-rinsing-help-asean-control-pandemic-or-swift-action-1703801-2020-07-24 https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis/story/did-nasal-rins... General details on the practice: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neti_(Hatha_Yoga) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neti_(Hatha_Yoga)
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    Usually it is not recommended due to the risk of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naegleria_fowleri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naegleria_fowleri

ErikVandeWater 5y ago

> "is avoiding cancellations worth flight attendants risking their health or safety?" It seems you are disproportionately concerned with Covid as opposed to other occupational hazards. There's a lot of jobs that are dangerous, and being a flight attendant isn't one of them.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
chrisseaton 5y ago
I don't know if it's 'dangerous' but it is certainly extremely unhealthy. https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/flight-attendant-unhealthy-job-risks https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/flight-at...
- ErikVandeWater 5y ago
  I'd trust that if it gave Business Insider gave a methodology that wasn't absurdly vague. And in the top three hazards listed for flight attendants is "Exposure to minor burns, cuts, bites, or stings." That's not threatening to the health of anyone familiar with bandaids and Neosporin.
  - 813594 5y ago
    Most dermatologists do not recommend Neosporin. https://www.newportbeachdps.com/polysporin-instead-neosporin/ https://www.newportbeachdps.com/polysporin-instead-neosporin...
michaelt 5y ago
Presumably flight attendants' jobs became substantially more challenging when so many Americans want to take off their mask, and it's the flight attendants that have to get them to keep them on.

tandymodel100 5y ago

If they are vaccinated and boosted their health risks are minimal.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

smabie 5y ago

You're saying there's no amount of money for which you would do that? I am highly skeptical