>> Do you honestly think that Visa and Mastercard wanna prevent people from using their services to buy porn for example? They don't give a shit, they want mone

>> Do you honestly think that Visa and Mastercard wanna prevent people from using their services to buy porn for example? They don't give a shit, they want money, the state, the people with the monopoly on force are the ones who create the circumstances that put that pressure on Visa and whoever else. If the government doesn't want these industries, why not just ban them? Why make businesses jump through hoops to accept payments and pay higher fees? And don't forget, if your company is big enough, Mastercard and Visa will work with you. Small business? Yeah, they don't. Who decided to make Mastercard and Visa gatekeepers and not our actual laws? >> If bitcoin mattered enough it would face the same fate (and I think it's clear that's the way it's headed). Crypto isn't somehow immune to the fact that we live in a society. What fate is that? Using Bitcoin and other crypto to pay for legitimate and legal items would have the government come down in storm? Can I not use cash for items deemed high-risk by Visa and MC? >> Broadly it's a zero or negative sum game, the value comes from other people losing value. We shouldn't allow systems like that. It might be a zero-sum game, but in the payments example, the buyer and seller win and the centralized authority loses.