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I can turn this right back around on you. > The power that decentralized identity offers, normal people don't want. The things it takes away: necessities. It's

by numair 5y ago

I can turn this right back around on you. > The power that decentralized identity offers, normal people don't want. The things it takes away: necessities. It's a toy, not a killer app. Who are you to decide what “normal” people want, what a “necessity” is, what a “toy” is? And, moreover, are you sure account recovery is as important as you think it is? Maybe people would prefer to have accounts that have very little identity, that get thrown away without much care — you know, like how people use throwaways on here — than some One Absolute Source Of Recoverable Truth? Humans have thrown things away forever. If anything, it is absolutely abnormal to want eternal persistence. Also, the whole thing that public key identity has existed and “nobody wants” is utterly laughable when you look at the actual usage metrics on web3 wallets. If that entire industry does nothing else, the fact that it’s made 19 year old art students feel cool for knowing how to handle their public and private keys is enough innovation for one cycle. Not sure why the crowd on HN is so irrationally religious about this issue. It’s not bike-shedding, but it’s definitely something similar.

meheleventyone 5y ago
> Who are you to decide what “normal” people want, what a “necessity” is, what a “toy” is? And, moreover, are you sure account recovery is as important as you think it is? Maybe people would prefer to have accounts that have very little identity, that get thrown away without much care — you know, like how people use throwaways on here — than some One Absolute Source Of Recoverable Truth? The person being replied to literally suggested it as a single source of truth. For everything from HN to your bank account. So you’re tilting at the wrong windmill! I think one thing the crypto fad has proven is that even experienced people can’t keep hold of their keys properly. You’re always one mistake from an irrecoverable situation. Why would I want creds that once compromised not only were irrecoverable but also affected my entire life? If you want easy, temporary identity then the current situation is pretty great.
- numair 5y ago
  > The person being replied to literally suggested it as a single source of truth. For everything from HN to your bank account. So you’re tilting at the wrong windmill! The parent I replied to is competent enough to know that there is an easy way to have that “recoverable account” he is obsessed with: custodial wallets. You know, like the custodial accounts that are the defining feature of Web 2.0. People who don’t understand the innovation of being able to choose between custodial and non-custodial, and how that’s a big deal that many appreciate beyond the opsec requirements, sort of expose their own weaknesses.
  - 8organicbits 5y ago
    I can see that login via private key is cool for some people, and being able to login via a private key some other party maintains for you would work for "normal" users. But I could also implement that without bringing in a block chain, right? Wouldn't we expect that Google and the current authN providers just implement that if it ever became popular?
    - UncleMeat 5y ago
      > But I could also implement that without bringing in a block chain, right? Not only that, but they have! Signature-based authentication existed 20 years ago. Register with a public key. Sign a message with your private key to authenticate. Modulo some small details to prevent things like replay, you are done. The only thing that the blockchain brings is that now lots of people have asymmetric key pairs where their public keys are published somewhere widely accessible.
  - meheleventyone 5y ago
    So the answer is web2!
aardvarkr 5y ago
I’m confused, you didn’t respond to the person’s argument. Way to go missing the forest for the trees. “Normal” is the >90% that hasn’t even heard of key signing and no amount of screaming at them will convince them to care.
- numair 5y ago
  No, you’re the one who is missing the point. An ever-growing number of highly engaged young people are using wallets and engaging in key signing without even thinking about it. And what those people do today, becomes the norm tomorrow. I had meetings with newspaper executives in 2007 where I told them “everyone will get their news on Facebook soon.” They couldn’t understand what I meant, because they didn’t think “normal” people would ever use such things. A lot of comments on HN regarding web3 remind me of those conversations. This will all be so embarrassing in 10 years.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    Facebook tells the opposite of the story you're trying to sell, of people flocking to a highly centralized space to get a single feed of news.
  - pcwalton 5y ago
    There are lots of things that highly-engaged young people have done that don't catch on in the long run. Given the problems that Web 3 has, I see it as a lot more likely that Web 3 will go the route of fidget spinners than the route of Google.

by numair 5y ago

meheleventyone 5y ago

> Who are you to decide what “normal” people want, what a “necessity” is, what a “toy” is? And, moreover, are you sure account recovery is as important as you think it is? Maybe people would prefer to have accounts that have very little identity, that get thrown away without much care — you know, like how people use throwaways on here — than some One Absolute Source Of Recoverable Truth? The person being replied to literally suggested it as a single source of truth. For everything from HN to your bank account. So you’re tilting at the wrong windmill! I think one thing the crypto fad has proven is that even experienced people can’t keep hold of their keys properly. You’re always one mistake from an irrecoverable situation. Why would I want creds that once compromised not only were irrecoverable but also affected my entire life? If you want easy, temporary identity then the current situation is pretty great.

numair 5y ago
> The person being replied to literally suggested it as a single source of truth. For everything from HN to your bank account. So you’re tilting at the wrong windmill! The parent I replied to is competent enough to know that there is an easy way to have that “recoverable account” he is obsessed with: custodial wallets. You know, like the custodial accounts that are the defining feature of Web 2.0. People who don’t understand the innovation of being able to choose between custodial and non-custodial, and how that’s a big deal that many appreciate beyond the opsec requirements, sort of expose their own weaknesses.
- 8organicbits 5y ago
  I can see that login via private key is cool for some people, and being able to login via a private key some other party maintains for you would work for "normal" users. But I could also implement that without bringing in a block chain, right? Wouldn't we expect that Google and the current authN providers just implement that if it ever became popular?
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    > But I could also implement that without bringing in a block chain, right? Not only that, but they have! Signature-based authentication existed 20 years ago. Register with a public key. Sign a message with your private key to authenticate. Modulo some small details to prevent things like replay, you are done. The only thing that the blockchain brings is that now lots of people have asymmetric key pairs where their public keys are published somewhere widely accessible.
- meheleventyone 5y ago
  So the answer is web2!

aardvarkr 5y ago

I’m confused, you didn’t respond to the person’s argument. Way to go missing the forest for the trees. “Normal” is the >90% that hasn’t even heard of key signing and no amount of screaming at them will convince them to care.

numair 5y ago
No, you’re the one who is missing the point. An ever-growing number of highly engaged young people are using wallets and engaging in key signing without even thinking about it. And what those people do today, becomes the norm tomorrow. I had meetings with newspaper executives in 2007 where I told them “everyone will get their news on Facebook soon.” They couldn’t understand what I meant, because they didn’t think “normal” people would ever use such things. A lot of comments on HN regarding web3 remind me of those conversations. This will all be so embarrassing in 10 years.
- tptacek 5y ago
  Facebook tells the opposite of the story you're trying to sell, of people flocking to a highly centralized space to get a single feed of news.
- pcwalton 5y ago
  There are lots of things that highly-engaged young people have done that don't catch on in the long run. Given the problems that Web 3 has, I see it as a lot more likely that Web 3 will go the route of fidget spinners than the route of Google.