8 ms·

Newsfeed for Crypto/DeFi Scams

59 points by e1g 5y ago

mattwilsonn888 5y ago
All the more reason the code which controls money probably shouldn't be an object oriented language compiled to bytecode. Strict functional will be looked back on as the obvious choice.
- ufo 5y ago
  Most of these are just plain old scams (phishing, inside jobs, etc), which aren't affected by the choice of programming language. There are also a bunch of hacks where off-blockchain software is compromised.
  - mattwilsonn888 5y ago
    You must not understand the terminology. The first five are clear contract code bugs. Even if there are scams, I'm not sure what you want to conclude about how to improve contract code from that. What I stated is well accepted.
- dnautics 5y ago
  Probably don't necessarily need strict functional, just need explicit "commit" statement or function where all of the mutations to the Blockchain are gathered the end of the function it makes it very clear what got changed
- MichaelBurge 5y ago
  Scammers will hire developers to make fake Github activity just so people looking see an active project, and then "rugpull" months later taking everything. If you debate OOP vs. functional or choice of programming language as if it were the central issue, you are helping scammers con investors by focusing on the wrong thing. At least one cryptocurrency has made a sales pitch of "Haskell is a secure language immune to exploits", and it's important to remind ourselves that using a technology that agrees with our preferences or programmer identity doesn't change the scam-status of it.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  I don't think a functional programming language can stop someone who's intentionally attempting to perpetrate a scam. It also probably couldn't entirely stop vulnerabilities in these "smart" contracts, but that's an entirely separate topic.
- carlosdp 5y ago
  Do you have any idea what comprises the source code for most traditional banking infrastructure? It ain't modern functional languages, I'll tell ya that much. >_>
neilk 5y ago
Another: https://web3isgoinggreat.com/ https://web3isgoinggreat.com/
- hn8788 5y ago
  I love how that site has a Web 1.0 fallback if you have javascript turned off. https://web3isgoinggreat.com/web1 https://web3isgoinggreat.com/web1
  - jl2718 5y ago
    This web1 version is awesome. Wish that was available everywhere.
mikefromhome 5y ago
Sucks about all the scams but it's nice to at least see a css grid out there in the wild.
arcticbull 5y ago
Smart contracts are a pile of money exposed directly to the internet with no firewall in the way. And no recourse when things inevitably go pear shaped. They’re somewhere between self funding bug bounties and just straight up honeypots. It’s interesting the folks with piholes and boobie trapped routers are the first to get behind this idea.
- schleck8 5y ago
  > the folks with piholes and boobie trapped routers That and the safari crowd with closed-source paid adblockers
- anon9001 5y ago
  > Smart contracts are a pile of money exposed directly to the internet with no firewall in the way. And no recourse when things inevitably go pear shaped. When you say it like that, it sounds like you're poking fun at the stupidity of defi and cryptocurrencies in general. But what if there were public contracts, with billions of dollars locked in them, with no firewalls, essentially a huge self funded bug bounty, widely publicized, running for literally years, and it... just works as intended? You probably still wouldn't like it because it doesn't fit your mental model of how security should work. But if years go by and any of it keeps working despite the massive bug bounties, people will build on the stuff that works. 90% of smart contracts can fail, as long as knowledge is gained and confidence goes up in the 10% that are left. The contracts are composable, so if something works, you can reuse it in a trusted way. After all, anything with billion dollar bounties that survived this long must be pretty strong. The contracts provide a feature that you can't get anywhere else: trustless decentralized computing. The "pile of money exposed directly to the internet" is actually a feature that tests trust. It might not seem like a big deal to you, but for banks or funds or nations or anyone with very large sums of money, the ability to withdraw/transfer/borrow/lend with no possible downtime or fraud is extremely appealing. With all the billions being thrown at this problem, I don't see how smart contracts could fail. > when things inevitably go pear shaped If you really believe all of these contracts will inevitably go pear shaped, are the billions not enough incentive for you to go find the bugs yourself? > It’s interesting the folks with piholes and boobie trapped routers are the first to get behind this idea. Yes, these people are called "early adopters". They're excited by new technologies, even when they involve risk. You should try it sometime.
exdsq 5y ago
Side note but I wish hacketnews wasn’t always so anti-crypto. Makes it a pretty depressing forum for those of us working in the space earnestly
- yob89 5y ago
- edent 5y ago
  Earnestly for what? What problem can it solve that a central database can't? Half the scams I've seen are stopped because a central 3rd party (like OpenSea) refuses to deal in the "stolen" property. At which point, there's no decentralisation. Look, I'm pro-decentralisation and pro-cryptography. But no one working in your space has built anything which has convinced me you're on to something brilliant. I hope I'm wrong though. Because if not - an awful lot of money, talent, and goodwill have been wasted.
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    To be fair to OP, your mind appears to be made up, and you can probably admit that, if youre honest with yourself, you don't earnestly look into the field much, right?
    - edent 5y ago
      I'm cyrrently studying for a Certified Blockchain Professional exam - see https://shkspr.mobi/blog/tag/certified-blockchain-professional/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/tag/certified-blockchain-profession... My mind isn't made up. But I'm struggling to find use cases which fit the Blockchain model.
      - exdsq 5y ago
        A third of GDP in Nepal is money sent by nationals working abroad and 1/4 of that is taken through high international banking fees. Use stable coins on a blockchain to get around those and you’ll see a 1/12 increase in GDP? Phone credit based economies still exist in Africa. They have internet but no banking infrastructure. Using a blockchain allows people to create accounts and build a credit history as opposed to phone credit balances. The Gates foundation mentioned a lot of pain points in direct giving was the fees taken along the way. Again, something that could be looked at with crypto. Digital licenses - they aren’t transferable because the resale market doesn’t give returns to the creators. With NFT licenses you could trade them with fixed royalties going back to the creator. Etc
yob89 5y ago
systemvoltage 5y ago

59 points by e1g 5y ago

All the more reason the code which controls money probably shouldn't be an object oriented language compiled to bytecode. Strict functional will be looked back on as the obvious choice.

ufo 5y ago
Most of these are just plain old scams (phishing, inside jobs, etc), which aren't affected by the choice of programming language. There are also a bunch of hacks where off-blockchain software is compromised.
- mattwilsonn888 5y ago
  You must not understand the terminology. The first five are clear contract code bugs. Even if there are scams, I'm not sure what you want to conclude about how to improve contract code from that. What I stated is well accepted.
dnautics 5y ago
Probably don't necessarily need strict functional, just need explicit "commit" statement or function where all of the mutations to the Blockchain are gathered the end of the function it makes it very clear what got changed
MichaelBurge 5y ago
Scammers will hire developers to make fake Github activity just so people looking see an active project, and then "rugpull" months later taking everything. If you debate OOP vs. functional or choice of programming language as if it were the central issue, you are helping scammers con investors by focusing on the wrong thing. At least one cryptocurrency has made a sales pitch of "Haskell is a secure language immune to exploits", and it's important to remind ourselves that using a technology that agrees with our preferences or programmer identity doesn't change the scam-status of it.
woodruffw 5y ago
I don't think a functional programming language can stop someone who's intentionally attempting to perpetrate a scam. It also probably couldn't entirely stop vulnerabilities in these "smart" contracts, but that's an entirely separate topic.
carlosdp 5y ago
Do you have any idea what comprises the source code for most traditional banking infrastructure? It ain't modern functional languages, I'll tell ya that much. >_>

neilk 5y ago

Another: https://web3isgoinggreat.com/ https://web3isgoinggreat.com/

hn8788 5y ago
I love how that site has a Web 1.0 fallback if you have javascript turned off. https://web3isgoinggreat.com/web1 https://web3isgoinggreat.com/web1
- jl2718 5y ago
  This web1 version is awesome. Wish that was available everywhere.

mikefromhome 5y ago

Sucks about all the scams but it's nice to at least see a css grid out there in the wild.

arcticbull 5y ago

Smart contracts are a pile of money exposed directly to the internet with no firewall in the way. And no recourse when things inevitably go pear shaped. They’re somewhere between self funding bug bounties and just straight up honeypots. It’s interesting the folks with piholes and boobie trapped routers are the first to get behind this idea.

schleck8 5y ago
> the folks with piholes and boobie trapped routers That and the safari crowd with closed-source paid adblockers
anon9001 5y ago
> Smart contracts are a pile of money exposed directly to the internet with no firewall in the way. And no recourse when things inevitably go pear shaped. When you say it like that, it sounds like you're poking fun at the stupidity of defi and cryptocurrencies in general. But what if there were public contracts, with billions of dollars locked in them, with no firewalls, essentially a huge self funded bug bounty, widely publicized, running for literally years, and it... just works as intended? You probably still wouldn't like it because it doesn't fit your mental model of how security should work. But if years go by and any of it keeps working despite the massive bug bounties, people will build on the stuff that works. 90% of smart contracts can fail, as long as knowledge is gained and confidence goes up in the 10% that are left. The contracts are composable, so if something works, you can reuse it in a trusted way. After all, anything with billion dollar bounties that survived this long must be pretty strong. The contracts provide a feature that you can't get anywhere else: trustless decentralized computing. The "pile of money exposed directly to the internet" is actually a feature that tests trust. It might not seem like a big deal to you, but for banks or funds or nations or anyone with very large sums of money, the ability to withdraw/transfer/borrow/lend with no possible downtime or fraud is extremely appealing. With all the billions being thrown at this problem, I don't see how smart contracts could fail. > when things inevitably go pear shaped If you really believe all of these contracts will inevitably go pear shaped, are the billions not enough incentive for you to go find the bugs yourself? > It’s interesting the folks with piholes and boobie trapped routers are the first to get behind this idea. Yes, these people are called "early adopters". They're excited by new technologies, even when they involve risk. You should try it sometime.

exdsq 5y ago

Side note but I wish hacketnews wasn’t always so anti-crypto. Makes it a pretty depressing forum for those of us working in the space earnestly

yob89 5y ago
edent 5y ago
Earnestly for what? What problem can it solve that a central database can't? Half the scams I've seen are stopped because a central 3rd party (like OpenSea) refuses to deal in the "stolen" property. At which point, there's no decentralisation. Look, I'm pro-decentralisation and pro-cryptography. But no one working in your space has built anything which has convinced me you're on to something brilliant. I hope I'm wrong though. Because if not - an awful lot of money, talent, and goodwill have been wasted.
- fartcannon 5y ago
  To be fair to OP, your mind appears to be made up, and you can probably admit that, if youre honest with yourself, you don't earnestly look into the field much, right?
  - edent 5y ago
    I'm cyrrently studying for a Certified Blockchain Professional exam - see https://shkspr.mobi/blog/tag/certified-blockchain-professional/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/tag/certified-blockchain-profession... My mind isn't made up. But I'm struggling to find use cases which fit the Blockchain model.
    - exdsq 5y ago
      A third of GDP in Nepal is money sent by nationals working abroad and 1/4 of that is taken through high international banking fees. Use stable coins on a blockchain to get around those and you’ll see a 1/12 increase in GDP? Phone credit based economies still exist in Africa. They have internet but no banking infrastructure. Using a blockchain allows people to create accounts and build a credit history as opposed to phone credit balances. The Gates foundation mentioned a lot of pain points in direct giving was the fees taken along the way. Again, something that could be looked at with crypto. Digital licenses - they aren’t transferable because the resale market doesn’t give returns to the creators. With NFT licenses you could trade them with fixed royalties going back to the creator. Etc

yob89 5y ago

systemvoltage 5y ago