4 ms·

New England Is an Energy Crisis Waiting to Happen

33 points by tomohawk 5y ago

yuppie_scum 5y ago
Solar and Wind, then we hold out for fusion
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Hydro from Canada primarily, but would agree with solar and wind anywhere reasonable in NE-ISO (New England’s grid). Canadian hydro is plentiful, but New England is full of NIMBYs, and oil/gas interests are funding the transmission opposition efforts [1] [2]. If your electrical generation carbon emissions profile is clean enough, calling on oil for emergency power on the coldest days isn’t terrible, just as hospitals and other critical infra will fail to an on-site diesel generator during outages, but grid improvements will be needed to improve the carbon profile of electrical grids to allow for those “cheat days”. [1] https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/11/03/science/maine-voters-reject-transmission-line-that-would-bring-clean-energy-mass/ https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/11/03/science/maine-voters-... [2] https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/maine-voters-reject-quebec-hydropower-transmission-line-2021-11-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/maine-voters-reject-q...
- parkingrift 5y ago
  Oil, imported liquid natural gas, and blackouts. New England is a lifetime away from a renewable buildout.
  - avmich 5y ago
    We don't have lifetime to deal with climate crisis.
    - parkingrift 5y ago
      We actually do. But we won’t see action on the climate crisis until climate activists stop fighting good solutions. Perfect is the enemy of good.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rapjr9 5y ago
Most of the power in Vermont is hydro from Canada, nuclear from New Hampshire, local hydro or solar and wind, with some diesel peaking generators: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Vermont#Supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Vermont#Supply A lot of people do use LP gas in tanks for heating buildings and water, but lots of people have wood stoves as heat backup since snow and ice storms regularly take down the grid and make LP deliveries impossible. Maine is similar as are the rural parts of New Hampshire. Anyone who lives in a cold climate already knows you have to have backups for heat. Home generators/solar are popular also. So a lack of LNG (which is different than Liquid Propane gas used in rural home heating) might affect Boston and the more populous sections of New England, but it probably isn't going to be a major disaster elsewhere in the region. The reason Maine vetoed the transmission line is because Massachusetts completely ignored Maine's needs in designing it, like running an extension cord through your neighbors house. It may succeed if Massachusetts offers some benefit for Maine from a new transmission line. There are not a lot of people in Maine though, so there may only be downsides for Maine from a new transmission line and no upside. NIMBY implies people want the service but don't want the ugly industrial part of it in their back yard. This is more like Massachusetts trying to put the ugly industrial part in Maine's back yard, and understandably Maine doesn't want it if it has no benefit to Maine. You can argue that Maine should allow it because Climate Crisis, but that's a different argument, which might require some federal involvement in improving the USA grid. All that said, the quality of power in Vermont is terrible, I often see 10 major glitches per month and have arranged most everything in my house to run off UPS's. I think the problem is tree branches; the pine trees are so tall that even with a wide right of way the branches can often reach the power lines and cause the contactors to turn off for a few seconds before they automatically reset, especially when it is windy.
908B64B197 5y ago
They know they can just buy up north from Quebec for 0.05$ per kW/h? Completely green, renewable and plentifull. Problem solved.
- vondur 5y ago
  I believe this was mentioned in the article. Voters turned down a proposal to purchase electricity from Quebec which is hydro power.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    They voted themselves power that's at least 3x as expensive?
- fatnoah 5y ago
  As others have noted, one has to get either ME, NH, or VT on board to get power to southern New England. https://www.nhpr.org/northern-pass https://www.nhpr.org/northern-pass

33 points by tomohawk 5y ago

yuppie_scum 5y ago

Solar and Wind, then we hold out for fusion

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Hydro from Canada primarily, but would agree with solar and wind anywhere reasonable in NE-ISO (New England’s grid). Canadian hydro is plentiful, but New England is full of NIMBYs, and oil/gas interests are funding the transmission opposition efforts [1] [2]. If your electrical generation carbon emissions profile is clean enough, calling on oil for emergency power on the coldest days isn’t terrible, just as hospitals and other critical infra will fail to an on-site diesel generator during outages, but grid improvements will be needed to improve the carbon profile of electrical grids to allow for those “cheat days”. [1] https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/11/03/science/maine-voters-reject-transmission-line-that-would-bring-clean-energy-mass/ https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/11/03/science/maine-voters-... [2] https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/maine-voters-reject-quebec-hydropower-transmission-line-2021-11-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/maine-voters-reject-q...
parkingrift 5y ago
Oil, imported liquid natural gas, and blackouts. New England is a lifetime away from a renewable buildout.
- avmich 5y ago
  We don't have lifetime to deal with climate crisis.
  - parkingrift 5y ago
    We actually do. But we won’t see action on the climate crisis until climate activists stop fighting good solutions. Perfect is the enemy of good.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

rapjr9 5y ago

Most of the power in Vermont is hydro from Canada, nuclear from New Hampshire, local hydro or solar and wind, with some diesel peaking generators: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Vermont#Supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Vermont#Supply A lot of people do use LP gas in tanks for heating buildings and water, but lots of people have wood stoves as heat backup since snow and ice storms regularly take down the grid and make LP deliveries impossible. Maine is similar as are the rural parts of New Hampshire. Anyone who lives in a cold climate already knows you have to have backups for heat. Home generators/solar are popular also. So a lack of LNG (which is different than Liquid Propane gas used in rural home heating) might affect Boston and the more populous sections of New England, but it probably isn't going to be a major disaster elsewhere in the region. The reason Maine vetoed the transmission line is because Massachusetts completely ignored Maine's needs in designing it, like running an extension cord through your neighbors house. It may succeed if Massachusetts offers some benefit for Maine from a new transmission line. There are not a lot of people in Maine though, so there may only be downsides for Maine from a new transmission line and no upside. NIMBY implies people want the service but don't want the ugly industrial part of it in their back yard. This is more like Massachusetts trying to put the ugly industrial part in Maine's back yard, and understandably Maine doesn't want it if it has no benefit to Maine. You can argue that Maine should allow it because Climate Crisis, but that's a different argument, which might require some federal involvement in improving the USA grid. All that said, the quality of power in Vermont is terrible, I often see 10 major glitches per month and have arranged most everything in my house to run off UPS's. I think the problem is tree branches; the pine trees are so tall that even with a wide right of way the branches can often reach the power lines and cause the contactors to turn off for a few seconds before they automatically reset, especially when it is windy.

908B64B197 5y ago

They know they can just buy up north from Quebec for 0.05$ per kW/h? Completely green, renewable and plentifull. Problem solved.

vondur 5y ago
I believe this was mentioned in the article. Voters turned down a proposal to purchase electricity from Quebec which is hydro power.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  They voted themselves power that's at least 3x as expensive?
fatnoah 5y ago
As others have noted, one has to get either ME, NH, or VT on board to get power to southern New England. https://www.nhpr.org/northern-pass https://www.nhpr.org/northern-pass